Rookie of the Year discussion

[CincyRedsFan30]

Francoeur > Taveras

It's not even close.

[Fishercat]

He's played all year and that's got to count for something as the award is called Rookie of the YEAR...not half year.

If Francouer or Duke have been better in their short time to the degree in which their PAs are still worth more than Tavares' even with hundreds more, then they are the correct choice.

If you want to go by that logic, I pick Garrett Atkins. 470 PA, with a higher OBP and higher SLG (of course, in Coors, I could have a higher SLG than Willy Tavares). Francouer's OPS is almost 400 points higher than Tavarez. 400! That's insane. That's a little less than the difference between David Ortiz to Tony Womack.

Zach Duke has only 10 less innings than Huston Street. Yet he hasn't played enough and Street is a legitimate candidate? Why? Because Street can only pitch one inning. It's the best rookie of 2005. If a person can have 0 value from Apr-June, and they outproduce another guy's yearly production in the last three months, they're still the best that year (even more so since condensed production is often better than a consistant line, even if they end with similar numbers, or at least I remember reading that).

[ATLien]

Mediocre It's his first year and he is top five in steals and has a .292 average. Hardly mediocre. Lowry's ERA was 3.86 but you were talking "impact" which proves you have a worse memory than a pothead.

Yeah, he's been good so far and has made an impact for the 'Stros. I just think Francoeur has made a bigger impact, and in the long run will be the much superior player.

(I don't think a player's potential should be the deciding factor for the award, far from it infact, but if it's a close race then perhaps it should be looked at.)

[Kingdom]

Just because I don't care what the Giants do or don't do, does not mean I have a bad memory. It just means I don't give a damn about the NL Least division.

[Fishercat]

You expect leadoff hitters to have .900 OPS? You should take a look at your S3SL leadoff hitter's slugging percentage for an indication.

#3-#4 caliber hitters (say, Alex Rodriguez or Manny Ramirez) are almost always more valuable (or better) than leadoff hitters. There's a reason he's put there, so he has the best possible oppurtunity for the OBP guys (ideally in the 1-2 holes) will be driven in. There is value in both positions.

My S3SL leadoff hitter, most of the time, is Jason Repko. Repko has a fantastic showing so far, his slugging is over .600. As for Tony Giarratano, he's still been quite a bit better in his PH/starting v. LHP roles then Willy Tavares has been in the real world.

I should note, that Willy Tavares steals don't have a lot of worth. Why do I say that? I know steals have worth, that's obvious. However, his rate of SB is around a 75% success rate, which isn't that great in terms of making value in running. You need both attempts and success to be a good base stealer. I know multiple statisticians have shown that you need to steal about 70-80% of bases to break even with value in terms of producing runs, and Tavares is right in there. If it were 32/35, then I could see more value.

[Kingdom]

I don't think you fairly should focus on Taveras's slugging percentage, as opposed to his on base percentage. He is a lead off guy, and him being on base more is what's most important. And if he's only getting on as much as a guy like Jeremy Reed (who's batting average is below .260), then does he have much grounds to be rewarded?

[Fishercat]

Cause they played all year and did extremely well as has Tavares. And no, I'm not comparing seasons or players.

Only one of those two descriptions is true. Willy Tavares season has not been significantly better than even Mark Bellhorn. He's been better, no denying that, BA has value and that value has made him more valuable with the SB, but when you have a similar OPS (or OBP, or SLG) to 2005 Mark Belhorn, "extremely well" has to be a synonym for "designated for assignment".

[Fishercat]

I don't think you fairly should focus on Taveras's slugging percentage, as opposed to his on base percentage. He is a lead off guy, and him being on base more is what's most important. And if he's only getting on as much as a guy like Jeremy Reed (who's batting average is below .260), then does he have much grounds to be rewarded?

OK, I'll focus on OBP. That's fine with me. There are around 10-15 NL rookies (I think the number's higher, but as I go down the rookie list, I get bored) with a higher OBP than Willy Tavares and at least 100 PA (most of which have around 200-300), and that is Tavares duty. If you want to use SB, his OPS would go up if you added around 20 TB, but his OBP would get lower since he has been caught stealing 11 times, meaning 11 of his PA where he got on-base were negated.

[Kingdom]

I'm just saying, his OBP brings plenty of negative criticism. He's not really out there to be a primetime slugger of sorts. The best of Houston's lineup are the 2-4 hitters, so it makes sense for him to have a good OBP. And he doesn't one that makes a big splash. He's certainly been solid for a team that sometimes has better luck getting offense from their pitchers. But even in a full season, I don't think his numbers warrant him being the winner over Francoeur. Or even Barmes, if you really get down to it. Chris Duffy for the pirates, has been very good in his late season call up, especially awesome on defense (his OBP is around .390 too).

[Saber]

.292/.324/.344

Willy Tavares has played all year, and he's sucked all year. He's one of the reasons the Astros offense sucks. Jeff Franceour has produced twice as many runs in less than half the time.

Right now, Joe Blanton is barely more valuable than Joe Mauer, and Jeff Franceour is barely more valuable then Zach Duke.

[Porter]

Would there be a question if Felix pitched a whole season for the AL?

[Halladay_is_God]

Gustavo Chacin, if he can pitch in 200 Inning and finish with 15 wins he has a strong chance to win the ROY it will depend how Chican and the team do in September though.

I don't think playing in Toronto will hurt his chance at all especially if the team can win 80 games since they only won 67 last year (this year most people had them writen off before you can say Spring Training) plus it has never stopped players such as Roy Halladay, Roger Clemems (twice), and Pat Hentgen winning the Cy Young.

Gustavo does have limited upside, he did skip the AAA level but that was due a strong showing late last year and finding a cut fastball

[Kingdom]

Mauer's not a rookie anymore...


right?

[Kingdom]

Would there be a question if Felix pitched a whole season for the AL?

That's hard to say, even in a handful of starts that he has showed his talent, who knows if he could do it for a whole season. Same can be said for Duke really, who knows how they hold up as they inch towards 200ip.

[realmofotalk]

My S3SL leadoff hitter, most of the time, is Jason Repko. Repko has a fantastic showing so far, his slugging is over .600.

The same Jason Repko? Gotta love OOTP sometimes.