2008 Ideas / rumors / trades

[HollywoodLeo]

And the reason they sucked this year and will probably suck next year is because they're fresh out of top tier home grown talent that's been their keys to success up until this point.

Coincidence?

[GiantsFanatic]

Marlins are the expection.

Cardinals actually spent money, Rolen, Pujols, Eckstein, Mulder, Carpenter, adn Isringhousen, besides Pujols, those are not home grown talents, they traded for them and signed them through FA.

[GiantsFanatic]

And the reason they sucked this year and will probably suck next year is because they're fresh out of top tier home grown talent that's been their keys to success up until this point.

Coincidence?

Whats the point of that then? Hey we are good, but we cant/wont sign our players who are in there prime, so lets start from scratch.

And also whenever MN/Oak have made it to the playoffs, each of those advanced past the first round once, so its not like there doing anything when they get into the playoffs.

[HollywoodLeo]

Marlins are the expection.

Cardinals actually spent money, Rolen, Pujols, Eckstein, Mulder, Carpenter, adn Isringhousen, besides Pujols, those are not home grown talents, they traded for them and signed them through FA.

That's irrelevant to the point that they weren't all that great last year and played in a shitty division and backed into the playoffs then got hot at the right time.

Pointing out that they won the WS had nothing to do with their payroll and everything to do with backing up my statement of "Everyone knows winning the WS is up for grabs to anyone who makes the playoffs"

As for payroll, the Angels didn't start opening the wallets until after 2002.

[HollywoodLeo]

Whats the point of that then? Hey we are good, but we cant/wont sign our players who are in there prime, so lets start from scratch.

They're simply playing the hand that's dealt to them in a system that favors those in the larger markets.

I agree with you to an extent. If they had the fiscal ability to match the payrolls of the Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox they'd probably be in a better situation.

The problem is.....they don't play in the market to allow that type of payroll when there isn't a limit put on those that can afford to spend that much more.

And also whenever MN/Oak have made it to the playoffs, each of those advanced past the first round once, so its not like there doing anything when they get into the playoffs.

Who cares what they've done in the playoffs?

Again, you can't just change the standards to fit your argument, it just doesn't work that way.

You are the one that said "yeah, but" to Fresnan's list because other teams made it last year, not I.

If you want to eliminate teams that didn't get past the first round then you can't include the Dodgers on your list of those succeeding, thereby strengthening Fresnan's list. (The Dodgers and their massive payroll have won one playoff game since winning the World Series back in 1988.)

If Fresnan's list can be blown off due to those standards then the A's and Twins fit the same standards as well. The Padres, too, I might add.

[GiantsFanatic]

I'm sorry but the MN owner has more money than Steinbreiner, yet he fails to spend a penny on his team.

With a small payroll you can make it to the playoffs, but I dont you can win the WS with a small payroll, Marlins might be the expection, but they did have veterans on that squad.

[HollywoodLeo]

Common fallacy.

It's not the amount of money the owner has to his name that matters it's the amount of money the team is bringing in.

Like it or not the owners like their business to make money, not lose it.
(Yeah, I know, far be it for a business owner to be in the business to make a profit. Greedy ****s)

They don't make money by spending more than they're bringing in.

Yes "you gotta spend money to make money" but that only bodes well so far and it comes down to the whole risk-to-reward ratio.

The Yankees can afford to gamble on a 15 mil/year deal because the Yankees organization brings in enough to make it ok for them to sign someone else to a 15 mil/year deal should the other guy falter

If the Twins sign someone to 15 mil per and he falters or gets injured they're pretty much ****ed.

Look what happened to the Padres when they had Nevin and Klesko at >10 per each.

[love_that_reefer]

The A's and Twins have great GM's and that's why they make the playoffs. I agree the Twins didn't do anything this year to help their case but before this season the Twins did get help, A's too. Hom, egrown talent with a mix of the right veterans is the new formula to getting to the WS. When you don't have that homegrown talent, you have to do something. The Padres aren't even close to $100 mil even if you sign five FAs so why was this even brought up?

[HollywoodLeo]

The A's and Twins have great GM's and that's why they make the playoffs. I agree the Twins didn't do anything this year to help their case but before this season the Twins did get help, A's too. Hom, egrown talent with a mix of the right veterans is the new formula to getting to the WS. When you don't have that homegrown talent, you have to do something. The Padres aren't even close to $100 mil even if you sign five FAs so why was this even brought up?

I don't know why it was brought up, either, I just kinda jumped in the middle of the conversation and argued some points I disagreed with.

[love_that_reefer]

I see that

[FmrFresnan]

I don't know why it was brought up, either, I just kinda jumped in the middle of the conversation and argued some points I disagreed with.

HWood, let me ask you a question and maybe you can confirm this opinion for me. I've been of the opinion, and Reefer disagrees, that what Aaron Rowand is looking for is out of the Padres range. Do you see that as accurate or do you think they should pony up $12M - $14M/year over 5 years for him?

[love_that_reefer]

You can't confirm an opinion, you can only agree with it. Key word opinion. You have the opinion that he is going to make $14 mil, I do not.

[FmrFresnan]

You can't confirm an opinion, you can only agree with it. Key word opinion. You have the opinion that he is going to make $14 mil, I do not.

I know we disagree Reefer, hence the "I'm of the opinion, and Reefer disagrees" part of my last post.

[love_that_reefer]

Yeah I got that just as I hope you got that no one can confirm an opinion. It's yours, you have it, no confirmation needed.

[FmrFresnan]

Yeah I got that just as I hope you got that no one can confirm an opinion. It's yours, you have it, no confirmation needed.

You make me laugh Reefer. Does it really matter whether an opinion can be confirmed or not? Ok, maybe I worded that post wrong, I wanted to see if he "agreed" with me that the Padres won't fork over the money Rowand is looking for.

How was that, to your liking?