Arroyo Rumors

[redsrbetter]

Buster Olney has rumors of a Braves interest. Krivsky doesn't have him on his untouchables list. Personally, I believe that Arroyo has to be the hottest commodity on any trade block. He is a SP who has shown recent and past success. The only thing you don't like about him is that he has had nowhere near the same season as last year. Not only that, he comes must cheaper than those in his class.

So my question is why trade Arroyo? With the free agent market seeming to get weaker by the day with guys like Buehrle resigning with their teams, trading Arroyo leaves us with two SP for next year (Harang and Bailey). With guys like Lohse steadily climbing the top of the free agent ladder, why do we hurt our rotation now? Trust me, there will be nobody to go after SP wise this offseason.

For me, Arroyo is a must keep even if it means passing up on a guy like Saltamacchia. He is that much better than anyone in the free agent market whom we would be looking to replace him with.

08 rotation with Arroyo:

Harang
Arroyo
Bailey
Belisle
Livingston/Dumatrait

Still a lot to be desired, but better without Arroyo for sure.

[Slyder]

Arroyo is probably on the next tier down from untouchable as in you better wow me. IE Salty and a really good pitching spect. I cannot see the reds extending him and trade him when absolute crap is getting the same type of money on FA this past year. Look at the Randy Johnson trade in 98 and I think you'd have close to what it might take, maybe more considering the market and the fact Arroyo is signed for fairly managable amount for a few more years.

[missionhockey21]

Call it a good stretch for a bad team or a better showing of what this team is like... but recently, we've been pretty good. Hell, had we had a bit more, we could of took 3 of 4 from the Mets as two of those games were heartbreakers. I am not saying the Reds will keep this up and we're playoff bound but it's not the time to sell. The Braves would laugh at a deal of Salty for Arroyo and this is a buyers market this year. If Arroyo didn't have the horrid stretch, you could probably ask for something like that, but not with his current line. My point is and always has been, keep this team intact of the parts you need and build around them this offseason to win (and that includes getting the right coaches in here.) Because trading a Dunn or an Arroyo is not going to net a sure thing prospect with Krivsky at the helm.

[redram38]

If we can get Saltamacchia for Arroyo then I say do it and do it before the Braves wise up. Bronson has done nothing for a year and 1/2 and Ross is batting .190, yea that's right .190. I don't care if he does call a good game .190 is unaceptable in the majors.
We have not had a catcher like this since hmmmm, Johnny Bench. No I am not comparing him to Bench but he beats Ross by a million miles, and I am so tired of having 3 pitchers batting in this lineup. Ross, Freel and the pitcher. Pull the trigger fast!!!

[Slyder]

If we can get Saltamacchia for Arroyo then I say do it and do it before the Braves wise up. Bronson has done nothing for a year and 1/2 and Ross is batting .190, yea that's right .190. I don't care if he does call a good game .190 is unaceptable in the majors.
We have not had a catcher like this since hmmmm, Johnny Bench. No I am not comparing him to Bench but he beats Ross by a million miles, and I am so tired of having 3 pitchers batting in this lineup. Ross, Freel and the pitcher. Pull the trigger fast!!!

We have seen what all hitting and no pitching gets you... 500 in a good year. It has taken the Reds how many years to field 2 above average pitchers in the rotation? And now you want to trade one of them for a catcher? I don't care if he turns out to Mike Piazza, Johnny Bench, and Ivan Rodriguez slammed into 1 guy who are we going to send out there every fifth day to pitch with him?

I'm sorry I am tired of recycling the All Offense and no pitching teams. If Atlanta has any pitching worthwhile then I might do it. Arroyo is signed for cheap and then got a reasonable offer when you see what the rest of the drek starting pitchers are getting in this market. Trading Arroyo for Salty does nothing to improve, in fact I'd argue weakens, this team where it needs to be... pitching.

[redsrbetter]

Apparently Krivsky wants Salty but the Braves won't budge.

The Braves have been trying to swing a deal for Reds right-hander Bronson Arroyo. But the Reds' asking price so far has been too steep -- they've asked that top hitting prospect Jarrod Saltalamacchia be included in the deal, and the Braves don't want to deal Saltalamacchia, who may be their regular first baseman for the rest of the season. ... If the Reds are going to deal a pitcher, they'd rather it be Kyle Lohse, since they have Arroyo signed through 2010 and they believe that, in the NL Central, nobody's more than a year away from contending.

Link (bottom paragraph)

[NFLman2033]

Apparently Krivsky wants Salty but the Braves won't budge.



Link (bottom paragraph)

that sounds good.. stick to their guns.. in this buyer market this year.. we should rather keep him and have him next year then to get under paid for him. and like Slyder said do we really want to trade pitching for a catcher

[redsrbetter]

Salty is going to be good. Real good in fact. But I still think Arroyo is coming out of his funk. I just can't imagine losing him and am glad the Braves will not budge on this.

[redram38]

We have seen what all hitting and no pitching gets you... 500 in a good year. It has taken the Reds how many years to field 2 above average pitchers in the rotation? And now you want to trade one of them for a catcher? I don't care if he turns out to Mike Piazza, Johnny Bench, and Ivan Rodriguez slammed into 1 guy who are we going to send out there every fifth day to pitch with him?

I'm sorry I am tired of recycling the All Offense and no pitching teams. If Atlanta has any pitching worthwhile then I might do it. Arroyo is signed for cheap and then got a reasonable offer when you see what the rest of the drek starting pitchers are getting in this market. Trading Arroyo for Salty does nothing to improve, in fact I'd argue weakens, this team where it needs to be... pitching.

I am sorry to STRONGLY disagree with you here. You said above average pitcher. Arroyo has been anything but that since last years all-star game. He has lost 10 games this year and most have been blow outs. It is not a matter of IF he is going to give up the long ball but when and how many will be on base. I admit he has had flashes this year of being very good, but so has Loshe and Belise and everyone is ready to kick them off the team. Until I see harang like outings from him on a consistant basis he will continue to be average at best in my eyes. And for you to say you would not trade him for Bench is just going waaaaaayyyyyy to far. Do you really think Arroyo will be a hall of famer and known as one of the best at his position to ever play ths game. I think not. But that is what is great about these forums. We can all state our opinions and agree to disagree at times.

[Slyder]

Arroyo has been anything but that since last years all-star game. He has lost 10 games this year and most have been blow outs.

5 to 3, 6 to 4 ya those are REAL blowouts. Since his era peaked on June 17th (5 starts) he has given up exactly 2 HRs to the Mets. Last time I checked they can really smash that ball around. In total he has given up 11 home runs ALL YEAR. If you take out the bad stretch for whatever reason where he struggled he's given up 3 home runs in 14 starts.

It is not a matter of IF he is going to give up the long ball but when and how many will be on base. I admit he has had flashes this year of being very good, but so has Loshe and Belise and everyone is ready to kick them off the team.

Please tell me youre joking about comparing Arroyo to Lohse and BelisLe. Bronson's put up a better season than either of them can dream of. Did he struggle for about 6 game stretch? Yes, I can't dispute that. But he is 100 times the STARTING pitcher than Lohse or BelisLe have shown.

Until I see harang like outings from him on a consistant basis he will continue to be average at best in my eyes.

Wow thats not asking for much...

And for you to say you would not trade him for Bench is just going waaaaaayyyyyy to far. Do you really think Arroyo will be a hall of famer and known as one of the best at his position to ever play ths game. I think not.

BUT where would Pete, Joe, Johnny be without Jack Billingham, Don Gullett, Pedro Borbon, etc. Home for the playoffs. Plus besides Homer and Cueto the Reds have NOTHING resembling more than a back of the rotation/swing type guys. We would be trading from weakness to a strength (offense) thats not how you succeed.

But that is what is great about these forums. We can all state our opinions and agree to disagree at times.

Yes it is and yes its great.

[redram38]

Another Great outing by Arroyo today. Once again 2 2 run shots and then were done. I will admit if you take away the 2 hr's he did ok, but if you could take away 2 hr's from any pitcher they would be much improved as well. I never compared him to Lohse and Belise only that everyone calls for their heads when they have outing like Arroyo had today. Yes, he had a streak of some better pitched games, but you can't take away the start he has had and the way he pitched last year after the break. I know the BP blew a couple of those games but he left being behind in alot of those games as well. I can't throw stats out at you and won't even try. I can only go by what my eyes see. I have watched each and every single game the Reds have played on TV for many years and I just call it like I see it. I was very excited to have him before the break last year, but then I saw maybe why Boston traded him. He has struggled big time. Has he had some great games, Yes, but so has Loshe. Maybe it just seems like he has given up more HR's than what you listed, it could be most come in the worse possible time just like today.

You asked where Pete, Johnny, and Joe would be without Billingham and Gullet. They would be in the Hall of Fame (except Pete that is). And yes I think the Reds would have still won the series in 75 and 76.

I agree this team needs better pitching esp in the BP, I am just saying I don't think Arroyo is as Great as everyone puts him out to be. Would I love to be proven wrong and he go on a 10 game winning streak with and ERA of 2.00, you bet I would. I am a Reds fan through thick and thin, have been since 1970 and no matter what their record is I will keep watching and hoping for wins every time they play. AND YES I would pulling HARD AS HELL for Bronson to throw a shut out today and will every time he takes the mound, even if it makes what I write sound like I don't have a clue.

[redram38]

Ok here are stats from May 1 till now

From April 9 to May 16 he had a very nice strech of good games. His record was 2-3 but due to Bad D or Bad BP. In these games he only gave up 1 long ball

Since that time however he has struggled, why ? he has given up 12 HR's in 12 starts. That is reason to be concerned IMO. Only 5 of those were at GA ballpark. And look at the Hits and walks per innings pitched. I don't know but these stats don't look very impresive since the middle of May.

Here is a link to his starts this year by game

The Official Site of The Cincinnati Reds: Stats: Individual Player Game by Game Log

[Providence A's]

I have to agree with Redram overall here...you're just not going to get much for a pitcher who is 4 - 11 with an ERA over 4.5 who is below .500 for his career. I know there isn't much pitching available in the trade market supposedly, but guys like Salty aren't going to be traded unless it's part of a deal for younger, better SP.

And as bad as Arroyo has been, I do agree that it doesn't make much sense for the Reds to deal pitching unless they're getting pitching from another deal. Dunn would probably net you the most out of guys the Reds would be willing to deal. Obviously, Harang, Bailey, Encarnacion, and Phillips would get you something good, too...but they won't be going anywhere. Regardless, to get something of value, you have to give up something of value and I don't think Arroyo will do that for you.

[NFLman2033]

ultimately i feel Arroyo is good #3 or #4 guy.. which is a hell of lot better than Loshe and Beslile who are lucky to be #5 guys.. and if we had some guys who could step up i would trade him for salty.. but truthfully we don't have it.. unless you plan on picking up some pitching.. which we all know is not likely to happen.. so ultimately.. he really shouldn't be moved.. at the same time.. if the guy is going to be the next Johnny Bench.. i won't be extremely pissed if we did trade him

[love_that_reefer]

The Braves are reportedly involved in discussions with the Reds regarding Bronson Arroyo.
The Reds are under no pressure at all to move Arroyo, who is signed through 2010 with an option for 2011. The Braves may have the money to take him on -- he big extension doesn't kick in until 2009, so he'll make less than $6 million through the end of 2008 -- but they're starting to run low on minor league talent to pull off another major deal. They'd likely have to include Jo-Jo Reyes, another quality pitching prospect (Tommy Hanson) and one of their top remaining minor league position players.

Arroyo has really struggled this year but this would make for a good, cheap starter for years to come with playoff experience.