Is PetCo really a pitcher's park?

[padrefanforever]

This echos my thoughts of Dodger Stadium being a "pitcher's park." The Dodger batters can't hit but the ballpark is 6th in HRs on the Leo's list.

anyone on the team hit more than 20 ?

[realmofotalk]

IIRC, just Jeff Kent.

[padrefanforever]

he was the only guy healthy for the full year right ? or with more than 400 AB's ?

[realmofotalk]

Kent and Izturis (surprisingly) had over 400AB's.

[HollywoodLeo]

Yes actually what was said ....... waaaaaaay back when is that it's not that Petco is a pitchers park because other teams power hitters aren't having problems hitting the ball out...... it's the personell.......and our complete lack of power hitters.......if we had some legit power hitters......... Petco wouldn't rank at the bottom of that list ......... lol........sheesh...... cause and effect.......we have no power guys, therefore the HR totals are down at Petco......... opposing teams don't appear to have much of a problem hitter here, only we do.........

I don't think you're following the premesis of my argument. The Padres could have Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, Mike Schmidt, A-Rod, Johnny Bench, Mark McGwire, and Sammy Sosa, all in their primes, in their line up and they'd still rank the same on that list. That is a list of home runs by the opposition, ie anyone NOT wearing a Padres uniform (or uniform of the home team, in the case of the other parks)

I'm using opposing team home runs so that you CAN'T blame it on the personnel that's hitting the home runs. NONE of the home runs in the stats given for PetCo were hit by Padres. None of the HRs for the other parks were hit by the respective home team.

The stats I gave shows that two years in a row PetCo Park has ranked near the bottom of the NL in opposing team home runs, ie NOT THE PADRES

in other words, the opposition IS having problems hitting it out of PetCo...at least when you compare it to how much the opposition hits it out of other parks.

[HollywoodLeo]

in fact, if the Padres had better power hitters, PetCo might rank lower because the "legit" power hitters would probably have hit more HRs in Shea and Pro Player than they did this year, and more in Shea, SBC, and PNC than they did last season.

But it wouldn't be all too much lower...the whole point of me using the opposition's numbers is the wide variety of players hitting in the park, vs the same group of guys.

[padrefanforever]

and the reason for me asking for the opposing teams HR #'s was to show that it's not the park it's the personell...........

You act like I've said it's a hitters park.......which I have NEVER done........ this is getting very tired actually........

Fact......opposing teams out Homer us at home, and on the road

Fact......we have no legit power threats on our team

Fact...... if we had two or three legit power threats the above wouldn't be accurate

IMO.......Petco after two complete seasons plays fair and doesn't just support pitchers like everyone thinks

If we had three guys blasting 30, 30, 40....with our young guys in the 15HR range like they have been......Petco would NOT rank at the bottom of the list in HR's allowed......why is this so tough to see?.........it will never rank at the top like a bandbox, nor have I ever suggested that.

Go Padres !!! and I'm for NOT moving in the fence..........that park is perfect!

[love_that_reefer]

You have Ryan Klesko. Case Closed. Glad I could help.

[HollywoodLeo]

and the reason for me asking for the opposing teams HR #'s was to show that it's not the park it's the personell...........

Are you not reading my posts? I'm giving you the opposing team's HR numbers.

You act like I've said it's a hitters park.......which I have NEVER done........ this is getting very tired actually........

You act like I haven't repeatedly stated that I know that you're not calling it a hitter's park, and then said that I'm trying to point out that it IS the pitcher's park that everyone says it is.

Fact......opposing teams out Homer us at home, and on the road

Fact......we have no legit power threats on our team

True...but irrelevant. You act like I haven't repeatedly agreed to the above in pretty much every single one of my posts in this thread.

Fact...... if we had two or three legit power threats the above wouldn't be accurate

If by "above" you mean the other two "facts" then yes, that goes without saying. If by "above" you mean my stats, then I beg to differ...

If we had three guys blasting 30, 30, 40....with our young guys in the 15HR range like they have been......Petco would NOT rank at the bottom of the list in HR's allowed......why is this so tough to see?.........it will never rank at the top like a bandbox, nor have I ever suggested that.

Did you read any of my last post? The Padres could've hit 15,931,157 and 2/5ths home runs at PetCo this season and they STILL would've ranked the same. Again, that ranking is a ranking of home runs hit by the OPPOSING TEAMS.

How many home runs Ryan Klesko, Phil Nevin, and company didn't hit is irrelevant. Again, they are home runs hit by THE OPPOSING TEAM

I seriously do not know how much more clear I can make this. Those rankings are not a ranking of how many home runs were hit in the park, they are not a ranking of how many home runs were hit by the home team, they are a ranking of how many home runs were hit by the OPPOSITION

Likewise, the HR totals listed for, say, Dodger Stadium..none of those were hit by Dodgers. If the Padres had better power hitters those power hitters would've hit more HRs at Dodger stadium this year...the Padres being the OPPOSITION while playing in Dodger stadium, Dodger Stadium would've been higher on the list.

in the meantime, the Dodgers could've hit 12,902,111 HRs at Dodger stadium this year and Dodger stadium would still rank the same as it is right now.

The whole reason i'm using soley opposing team home run totals is to show that when a whole plethera of major league hitters hit in the same park throughout an entire season PetCo ranks 3rd to last and then 2nd to last.

You can draw whatever conclusion you feel like with this, but please at least understand what exactly it is that i'm putting forth. It has nothing to do with how many home runs the Padres have hit, we are both in FULL agreement that they have no real power hitters. Using the opposition's ability to hit HRs in PetCo and comparing it to the opposition's ability to hit HRs in other parks completely negates the ability to blame it on the ability of Padres hitters to hit HRs (or lack thereof)

it will never rank at the top like a bandbox, nor have I ever suggested that.

And I never said that you suggested that.

I'm for NOT moving in the fence..........that park is perfect!

All the above aside, I actually like having a pitcher's park, so I'm not so sure i'd like them moved in all that much either.

What the Padres really need to do is get hitters that can hit it out of PetCo...getting right handed power would be a good start.

[padrefanforever]

I understand what you're saying.....lol.....I read your posts......here are the stats that you posted which you got from another post.....

"Petco's percentage for the season was .0267. This was based on 2803 visitor AB's and 75 HR's. Now carrying this idea a bit further (and a hell of a lot more work) I broke out the 1st 40 games from the rest of the season. I wanted to see what influence the April, May, June and 1st week of July weather/marine layer had. We all noticed that post All-Star break showed improvement. Some attributed this to the players learning to deal with the new park and making adjustments. Some cited change in weather. Since our opponents did not have the label of head cases.........if the stats for 1st half differed from 2nd half it should be attributable to conditions other than mental. First 40 games(April, May, June 1st week July) our visitors had 1367 AB's we allowed them 28 HR's for a percentage of .0204.... Next 42 games ( 2-4 week July Aug, Sept) our visitors had 1436 AB's and we allowed them 47 HR's for a percentage of .0327.... If I had ranked Petco on 1st half percentage of HR's/AB (remember this is our opponents not our guys hitting) we would have been last on the list of Stadiums. If I had ranked Petco only on the 2nd half it would have been between 7th and 8th (between Minute Maid and Olympic stadium). Season totals as I mentioned rank Petco #13th"

Ok.........1st can we at least both agree that May this year was a fluke ? If not, read no further....... If so, then you can clearly see we'd have ranked higher on that list........ our May is the only reason we are 13th....... The team only had 1 good month, and 5 bad months...... the 5 bad are more indicitive of this team, and how they play, and what they allow..... so take out the single best month in franchise history and run those stats........ you get a much different #.........manipulating stats in order to get the results wanted isn't what I'm trying to do here........but I think in this case that May was so far from our normal game that it applies to this argument.

What do ya think ?

[Saber]

The second half of the seasons includes warmer months, where the ball carries more. This effect exists in virtually ever park.

[padrefanforever]

San Diego averages 70 degrees year round......... and from Apl. on it's warm here.....anyone that's ever lived here knows that.......certain nights you will have the marine layer that might hold down the long ball, but conversely we have Santa Ana's where it might be 76 at night also......it evens itself out, so I don't buy that at all especially since I've lived here my whole life

[HollywoodLeo]

I understand what you're saying.....lol.....I read your posts......here are the stats that you posted which you got from another post.....

"Petco's percentage for the season was .0267. This was based on 2803 visitor AB's and 75 HR's. Now carrying this idea a bit further (and a hell of a lot more work) I broke out the 1st 40 games from the rest of the season. I wanted to see what influence the April, May, June and 1st week of July weather/marine layer had. We all noticed that post All-Star break showed improvement. Some attributed this to the players learning to deal with the new park and making adjustments. Some cited change in weather. Since our opponents did not have the label of head cases.........if the stats for 1st half differed from 2nd half it should be attributable to conditions other than mental. First 40 games(April, May, June 1st week July) our visitors had 1367 AB's we allowed them 28 HR's for a percentage of .0204.... Next 42 games ( 2-4 week July Aug, Sept) our visitors had 1436 AB's and we allowed them 47 HR's for a percentage of .0327.... If I had ranked Petco on 1st half percentage of HR's/AB (remember this is our opponents not our guys hitting) we would have been last on the list of Stadiums. If I had ranked Petco only on the 2nd half it would have been between 7th and 8th (between Minute Maid and Olympic stadium). Season totals as I mentioned rank Petco #13th"

Ok.........1st can we at least both agree that May this year was a fluke ? If not, read no further....... If so, then you can clearly see we'd have ranked higher on that list........ our May is the only reason we are 13th....... The team only had 1 good month, and 5 bad months...... the 5 bad are more indicitive of this team, and how they play, and what they allow..... so take out the single best month in franchise history and run those stats........ you get a much different #.........manipulating stats in order to get the results wanted isn't what I'm trying to do here........but I think in this case that May was so far from our normal game that it applies to this argument.

What do ya think ?

Those broken down stats you quoted were from last year. The "fluke" May was THIS year.

Again, it doesn't matter how many home runs the Padres hit, it's a matter of how many they gave up.

And, save taking a few months from the latter end of last season, last season as a whole, and this season as a whole visitors have ranked 3rd to last, and then 2nd to last amongst visitor's HRs in other parks.

I think May may or may not have been a fluke (i really hate that word. They simply played great that month, and didn't the rest of the year..but that's beside the point)
But that doesn't take away from the fact that PetCo ranked 2nd to last this year in visitor's HRs and 3rd to last last year. Sure, they ranked between 7th and 8th if you only look at the 2nd half of last year

[padrefanforever]

This topic is done....... Opposing teams have had virtually no problem hitting the ball and hitting the ball out of Petco compared to us once again...........conclusion is that the Padres personell not the ballpark is to blame.........that was the VERY SIMPLE thing that was being talked about in here before it went 10 degrees to the left..... and if you don't believe that it's the personell not the ballpark........you're just not thinking clearly........

[HollywoodLeo]

This topic is done....... Opposing teams have had virtually no problem hitting the ball and hitting the ball out of Petco compared to us once again...........conclusion is that the Padres personell not the ballpark is to blame.........that was the VERY SIMPLE thing that was being talked about in here before it went 10 degrees to the left..... and if you don't believe that it's the personell not the ballpark........you're just not thinking clearly........

I said this topic was done many many posts ago once I realized we were arguing two seperate things, but you keep coming back and informing me that i'm trying to put all blame on the park and not the personnel for not hitting HRs...when that is not the case.

Just because Padres hitters make it seem worse than it is does not mean it's not a pitcher's park.

i've said 500 million times now that i KNOW THE PADRES ARE NOT HOME RUN HITTERS. I KNOW IT'S THE PERSONNEL AND I KNOW THAT THE OPPOSITION HITS MORE HOME RUNS IN PETCO THAN THE PADRES DO

I'm trying to argue that , despite that obvious fact that you and me both agree on, that PetCo is still a pitcher's park. If you are only concerned with whether or not the Padres current hitters are capable of hitting HRs or not, then we are both in agreement and we have no debate here. I said many posts ago that I know it's the personnel and I agree with that, that's why I took out the whole aspect of being able to blame them on the lack of HRs

Has the opposition had trouble hitting HRs in PetCo as compared to the Padres? NO

Has the opposition had trouble hitting HRs in PetCo as compared to HRs hit by the opposition in 12 of 16 NL parks last year and 13 of 16 this year? YES

I know your main concern was the personnel's ability to hit HRs...I agree full heartildy with that. But I started this debate responding to this...

Petco was shown not to be a pitchers park this season when opposing teams came in and had ZERO problem hitting the ball out.

and I responded with this...

Did you ever come up with those stats on opposing team's HRs in PetCo as opposed to opposing team's HRs in other parks? Or are you just basing this remark on Nevin's failure to hit the long ball for the Rangers?

For the record, I do agree with you to some extent that the Padres are lacking in the power department...it's rather obvious. But I wouldn't go as far as to say that PetCo has proven to not be a pitcher's park either.

I don't know what you've been trying to debate this whole time, but I've been debating that PetCo IS a pitcher's park, despite the fact that the hitter's inabillity to hit the long ball makes it seem much worse than it is. And, IMO anyways, my stats that I relayed into this thread prove my case.

Please note that I'm not saying that it proves my case (that i'm not making) that the Padres offense would hit a lot more home runs if they played in any other park, it just proves my case that PetCo is a pitcher's park that it's hard to hit HRs in....which is escellated by the fact that the Padres don't have any home run hitters.