2008 Payroll

[FmrFresnan]

I don't think it's so much that Jones is declining, I think he had 1 bad year. I've already showed the comparison between Jones and Rowand at Petco Park, Jones having the upper hand in a big way.

Jones' numbers have declined over the past 3 seasons, but I still think he's one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball, and still has one of the most dangerous bats in baseball as well.

Let's look at the comparison's between the 2 though, this might give us a better look at it.

Jones/Rowand

Age: Jones 30 Rowand 30

Seasons: Jones 12 Rowand 7

Gold Gloves: Jones 10 Rowand 1

100 RBI seasons: Jones 5 Rowand 0

20+ HR seasons: Jones 10 Rowand 2

[love_that_reefer]

You are comparing 15 and 10 games. Jones is declining and all stats show that. Jones' range in the OF is going down while his waist line is getting bigger. Still doesn't change the fact that you having contradicted yourself. So now that Jones can be had, so can Rowand.

[FmrFresnan]

You are comparing 15 and 10 games. Jones is declining and all stats show that. Jones' range in the OF is going down while his waist line is getting bigger. Still doesn't change the fact that you having contradicted yourself. So now that Jones can be had, so can Rowand.

Just posting the facts Reefer, you can interpret them any way you wish. Yes, they may be 10 and 15 games respectively, but they still tell an interesting story.

As far as contradicting myself, I don't really see it that the way. It is a fact that the Padres had considered giving Jones a loaded 1 year deal, that's not something I suggested, that's fact. I think the Padres would be more willing to give Jones a 1 year than Rowand 5 years. Plus, Rowand plays in a bandbox up there in Philadelphia, people would say he wouldn't post the same numbers in Petco.

By the way, yes Rowand is coming off a great year with an All-Star appearance and a Gold Glove, but let's not lose sight of the fact that Jones still hit 26 HR's and drove in 94, 1 fewer HR and 5 more RBI's in 40 fewer AB's, oh yeah, and he won his 10th Gold Glove in 12 seasons.

[love_that_reefer]

Yes you did contradict yourself. You suggesting an offer for Jones up to a three year deal when saying getting Rowand who is cheaper is just ridiculous and unrealistic is contradicting yourself. If they can afford Jones, then they most certainly can afford Rowand. And don't make me laugh with Jones' last GG. Even Braves fans acknowledge he didn't deserve it but being a name counts when it comes to GGs. Like Cameron's last year and the last three Bonds ever had. Don't lose sight of the fact Jones hit .222. Getting Jones on a one year deal doesn't solve anything. You are in the same boat next year in a weaker market.

[FmrFresnan]

Actually, Jones would be cheaper for 3 years than Rowand would in 5. Let's say Rowand gets a 5 year $84M deal, and the Padres are looking at a, let's call it a 3 year $50M deal....Jones would be cheaper because the Padres would only owe him $50M instead of paying Rowand $84M right? So really, Jones would be cheaper than Rowand.

Again, I just posted the facts, you can look at them any way you wish, they're still facts. I understand that Jones only hit .222, but he still drove in 94, which is exactly what the Padres need. People would argue that Rowand wouldn't put up near the numbers he had last season playing in Petco.

[love_that_reefer]

According to your figures, Rowand will be making $16.8 per year and Jones would be making .2 mil less. These aren't even close to realistic numbers! Let's be more realistic. Jones on a three year deal would be worth around $48 mil and Rowand on a five year deal would be worth $60 mil. Point is Jones is going to make more moeny annually than Rowand but you keep saying the Padres won't spend that kind of cash. All GMs look at 15 games and hand over money. Yes you posted some facts but left out some too. Rowand in Petco will do a lot better than .222 and a .311 OBP and play better defense and come to think of it better all around. Here some facts for you, Jones is declining and Rowand is getting better.

[FmrFresnan]

My argument wasn't annually Reefer, yes, maybe Rowand would be cheaper annually, but when it's all said and done, if Rowand wants 5 years at $84M and you can sign Jones at 3 years and $50M, the Padres would be spending less total money for Jones.

Maybe Jones didn't deserve his Gold Glove this past season, but fact remains that it is on his resume, can't change that. You say Rowand would put up better numbers than Jones at Petco Park, yet I've posted stats, for both players, that says otherwise. I know what you're going to say, my comparison was only 10 and 15 games respectively, but the numbers are still in Jones' favor in a big way.

Yes, you're right, Jones batting average has declined every year for the past 3 seasons, but when he's still hitting 20+ HR's and driving in close to 100 and did that in 40 fewer at bats than Rowand, that's still being productive right?

I like Rowand a lot, I do, I won't argue that he may be better defensively, but I don't think either player is that much different from the other.

[love_that_reefer]

No, your whole argument has been the Padres won't spend that kind of money and now you have pulled a complete 180 and say they can. Again, your figures are just dead wrong. No one is going to pay Rowand $16.8 mil a year, no one! Jones will be paid more than Rowand and everyone knows that. My figures are more realistic and show Rowand for two extra years wouldn't be that much more than Jones for three years and I was lowballing Jones' contract.

Rowand had much better numbers than Jones and is getting better. Jones had worse and is declining. 15 games trumps a whole year of hitting .222 with a .311 OBP? Sorry if I take a 162 games a lot more seriously than 15 games stretched over years. Does no one any good. Rowand hits on the road and at home so it does't matter where he hits. I want to find someone who will say Rowand can't do better than .222/.311 in Petco. You won't find a one!It's not just Jones BA that is declining, it's everything! Jones is still producing but Rowand is doing it better and cheaper. Rowand and Jones are no way near the same kind of player. To not see the difference in a .222 hitter and a .309 hitter is remarkable. Just admit you contradicted yourself and I'll stop.

[FmrFresnan]

Point 1: I never compared 15 games to 162, I compared both player's numbers at Petco Park.

Point 2: You've made the point before where a lot of these players wouldn't do half as well in a pitcher's ballpark, as Petco is, so are you changing your opinion on that now for Rowand? You say I'm contradicting myself, but you're not? Ok....

Point 3: I wasn't arguing their "annual" salaries, I was talking about the total amount of money. My opinion, knowing the Padres front office, they tend to not sign players to deals for more than 3-4 years, so unless Rowand drops the number of years he's asking for, I don't see the Padres getting themselves locked into a deal for that long.

Point 4: We don't know, for a fact, how much each player is going to get, it's only speculation at this point. I haven't seen any speculation, unless you have something I haven't see, on what Jones is going to get, but I have seen 2 different articles, which I've posted before, on what they think Rowand is going to ask for (5 years - $84M). So, that's what I was going off of.

[love_that_reefer]

Point 1- a season is far more telling than 15 games stretched over years.

Point 2- I do think Rowands numbers will decline but will do far better than Jones .222/311 and hit 20+ homers and drive in runs and play GG defense. Never did I say otherwise. No contradiction.

Point 3- Rowands contract would still only be worth roughly $12 mil for two extra years and that wasme lowballing Jones' contract. Point is Rowand would be cheaper annually to fix the club, to make a better team. Plus you said the Pads won't spend that kid of money but now changed your mind.

Point 4- Boras was asking for $18 mil before the season ended for Jones and I pur his salary at $16 mil when I figures his three year salary. Like I said, I lowballed it. You're wrong about your own damn numbers. It said 6 yrs at 84 mil. Jones without a doubt will make more than Rowand. None of these numbers change the fact you contradicted yourself. If Jones is in the picture, Rowand has to be.

[FmrFresnan]

Point 1- a season is far more telling than 15 games stretched over years.

Yes, a season is far more telling, but, the point remains, and it is a fact that Jones has better career numbers at Petco than Rowand. I'm looking at which player would fair better in Petco.

Point 2- I do think Rowands numbers will decline but will do far better than Jones .222/311 and hit 20+ homers and drive in runs and play GG defense. Never did I say otherwise. No contradiction.

Eh, Rowand MIGHT get to 20 HR's playing for the Padres, but I think he may only get to 17-18. As long as he gives the Padres more production with runners in scoring position, I'm a happy man.

Point 3- Rowands contract would still only be worth roughly $12 mil for two extra years and that wasme lowballing Jones' contract. Point is Rowand would be cheaper annually to fix the club, to make a better team. Plus you said the Pads won't spend that kid of money but now changed your mind.

Ok, for the 3rd time, I'm not arguing their salaries annually. The thing that will concern the Padres front office is the years and total amount. You're right, it did say 6 years, my bad.

Point 4- Boras was asking for $18 mil before the season ended for Jones and I pur his salary at $16 mil when I figures his three year salary. Like I said, I lowballed it. You're wrong about your own damn numbers. It said 6 yrs at 84 mil. Jones without a doubt will make more than Rowand. None of these numbers change the fact you contradicted yourself. If Jones is in the picture, Rowand has to be.

Who says Boras won't take a loaded 1 year deal from someone for Jones? He's done it before, a la Jeff Weaver in Seattle. I won't argue against either player being a Padre when the 2008 season starts, both players will be able to help this offense, note that I didn't say "carry the offense" but they'll definetely help it.

[love_that_reefer]

[B]


Who says Boras won't take a loaded 1 year deal from someone for Jones? He's done it before, a la Jeff Weaver in Seattle. I won't argue against either player being a Padre when the 2008 season starts, both players will be able to help this offense, note that I didn't say "carry the offense" but they'll definetely help it.

No one said he wouldn't take a one year deal but it will cost you $18 mil to get him and then next year be in the same spot, looking for a CFer. Not very smart is it? Getting a CFer for years to come and at $12 mil/yr allows you to get other players and have a hole filled so you can concentrate on other things. The markey is going to get better than this as far as CFers go. Salaries annually is what it comes down to. You pay them year by year. not all at once. The Padres can afford the years and the money plus it wouldn't hurt them getting Peavy. I wouldn't give him five years but that doesn't mean Rowand won't accept a four or three year deal if it were the right deal. The whole point was that you said they wouldn't spend the money and now think they will. You can no longer dismiss Rowand as an option is what I'm saying. Hell you can't dismiss Hunter at Jones' price. If you are going to give Jones a 3 yr deal as you suggested it would be around $54 mil. Rowand at the $14 mil you think he will get over 3 yrs would be $42 mil and trust me if the Padres offered that, he would take it in a heartbeat.

[FmrFresnan]

I think the Padres don't want to get locked into a 6-year deal, they've gotten bit in the ass for that before. If Rowand would take a 3 year deal to come to San Diego, absolutely I would offer it to him, but if his agent is looking for a 6-year deal, I can't see San Diego offering.

[love_that_reefer]

Boras was looking for a 10 yr deal for Jones but that doesn't mean it will happen. I don't see any team giving Rowand 6 yrs or $14 mil/yr.

[padrefanforever]

Who said the Padres WOULD give AJones a multi-year mega million dollar deal ? Please copy/paste where that was said..........