NL Cy Young: Is it really even a question who is the leading candidate?

[love_that_reefer]

Talk about small sample size, that's Clemens leads in those categories which make them so insignificant. .06 lead means basically nothing since Carpenter has so mnay more innings than Clemens. And you haven't been watching Carpenter all year if you think he has a 5-1 lead everytime. And why are you predicting careers? It's about this year and this year only. If ERA and Whip were what made a pitcher Cy Young, why wasn't Randy Johnson Cy Young?

[CincyRedsFan30]

Looks like mission's stats. show Clemens ahead in almost all categories.

But Carpenter does throw more innings and has all of those important extra wins, so he must win the award.

[Providence A's]

Let's see Clemens slight leads in those categories rise even more if he pitched 30 more innings, too

[love_that_reefer]

You never answered my question

[love_that_reefer]

Carpenter has less walks and has 30 more innings!!!!!! Carpenter's CG's and SHO cannot be ignored! Plus Carpenter has one more start at this point. So a .03 lead in WHIP is just plain laughable when you know what WHIP actually means. These points are silly. Carpenter's K/BB ratio is better and might explain why he pitches so many innings. Look at Carpenter's shutouts and complete games and tell me what the scores are. They are close games and the Cards have a damn good closer. Wonder why LaRussa would keep him in? Maybe because he is the best pitcher in the game today.

[Providence A's]

But you're talking about how Carpenter is getting CGs because he gets more runs. I'm showing you how more runs doesn't necessarily equal CGs. That's the point. I'm showing that Carpenter is getting CGs because he is pitching well regardless of the 5 runs a game he gets.

Here are his CGs:
Beat Cubs 4 - 0 (7 hits, 1 walk, 6 k's)
Beat Blue Jays 7 - 0 (1 hit, 1 walk, 10k's)
Beat Pirates 8 - 0 (4 hits, 0 walks, 11 k's)
Beat Astros and Clemens! 3 - 0 (3 hits, 0 walks, 9 k's)
Beat Marlins 3 - 1 (3 hits, 1 walk, 1 earned run, 6 k's)
Beat Cubs 5 - 2 (8 hits, 0 walks, 2 earned runs, 8 k's)

Only 2 games did the Cards win by more than 4 runs and those were both shutouts so it didn't matter how many runs they scored.

yup

Here is his last CG since he has 7 now:

Beat Astros and Clemens! 4 - 2 (8 hits, 2 earned runs, 2 walks, 8 k's)

[CincyRedsFan30]

Carpenter has less walks and has 30 more innings!!!!!! Carpenter's CG's and SHO cannot be ignored! Plus Carpenter has one more start at this point. So a .03 lead in WHIP is just plain laughable when you know what WHIP actually means. These points are silly. Carpenter's K/BB ratio is better and might explain why he pitches so many innings. Look at Carpenter's shutouts and complete games and tell me what the scores are. They are close games and the Cards have a damn good closer. Wonder why LaRussa would keep him in? Maybe because he is the best pitcher in the game today.

It's not all about fewer BB. It's about a lower WHIP. I don't care how slight Clemens' lead is... it's a lead nonetheless. He has given up fewer BB and Hits on average in every one inning thrown. Mission posted stats. that have been proven as accurate(SLG/OPS against, etc.) and they showed Clemens as being superior.

[love_that_reefer]

Do you know what WHIP is? If you did you would retract your first statement. I showed more impressive stats and stats that show more and the fact that Clemens has less innings would give him lower stats. Get real and see the big picture. A .03 lead is nothing worth mentioning.

[Providence A's]

and OPS was an even smaller 0.02 difference! talk about splitting hairs...just like this whole discussion...and I'm done. No one is going to change anyone's mind, but I believe I've proven my point(s). :ohwell:

[love_that_reefer]

Yeah I am too if smart people can't tell the difference of numbers between 30 innings. Its simply amazing that people think he is far superior over fractions of a point. Give Clemens two bad innings and his numbers are with Carpenter's. Its laughable.

[CincyRedsFan30]

The only stats. being used here that are given too much weight are those that look at Wins and Losses and more innings pitched. Getting that CG is extremely overrated over the long haul of a season. A few 7 IP outings by Clemens isn't a reason for him to not win the award when all of the other major stats. favor him. I have nothing else to say here.

[Providence A's]

There goes your precious 0.03 WHIP difference as Clemens gives up 11 hits and 1 walk in 5 and 2/3 innings to raise his WHIP to 1.00 for the season. As does your 0.02 slugging percentage and OPS difference as he gives up a homer, a triple, 3 doubles, and 6 singles.

Oh, and his ERA went up, too. 1.89 vs. 2.41 for a half run difference...the only major category he has any lead in now. He's headed for a 12 - 8 record as the Astros are losing 6 - 0 to the Pirates

[love_that_reefer]

Ha!

[CincyRedsFan30]

And he still leads in ERA, OPS, SLG, OBA against and is still tied in WHIP. And Carpenter doesn't pitch for a few more days. His last start wasn't exactly stellar...

[love_that_reefer]

Yeah wow Clemens actually pitched more innings than Carpenter for once. He should get it now Clemens still has a lot less innings which makes the difference.