If I were the Pirates GM...

[love_that_reefer]

my first move after finding a manager would be to trim the fat. There is just way to much mediocrity on this team wasting spots on the 40 man roster and more importantly, the MLB roster. Zach Duke, Jeff Karstens, Delwyn Young and Andy LaRoche are all arbitration eligible. They should all be non-tendered! Duke will be 28 next year and shows no signs of getting any better. Kartsens is in the same boat as Duke. Young is cheap and can play many positions but the Pirates can find someone better to do the same job for a little more pay. LaRoche has just been atrocious on both offense and defense and has no future with the club. Cut these wastes of space and go out and get some quality players. The free agent market is filled with affordable free agents the Pirates can pluck to improve this team without spending a lot of money. This team needs starting pitching like no other so that should be the main priority after getting a manager and cutting these losers I have mentioned. Pirates are interviewing Clint Hurdle today which would be a good fit as he did well with the young guys in Colorado. If you get Hurdle, you might get a chance at signing Jeff Francis on a low base salary deal with incentives. Just a thought. When the free agent market becomes more clear, I will have more to say on this matter. But cutting these guys has to be the first move. They could probably get three better pieces for what Duke made alone in '10.

[Sabu88]

my first move after finding a manager would be to trim the fat. There is just way to much mediocrity on this team wasting spots on the 40 man roster and more importantly, the MLB roster. Zach Duke, Jeff Karstens, Delwyn Young and Andy LaRoche are all arbitration eligible. They should all be non-tendered! Duke will be 28 next year and shows no signs of getting any better. Kartsens is in the same boat as Duke. Young is cheap and can play many positions but the Pirates can find someone better to do the same job for a little more pay. LaRoche has just been atrocious on both offense and defense and has no future with the club. Cut these wastes of space and go out and get some quality players. The free agent market is filled with affordable free agents the Pirates can pluck to improve this team without spending a lot of money. This team needs starting pitching like no other so that should be the main priority after getting a manager and cutting these losers I have mentioned. Pirates are interviewing Clint Hurdle today which would be a good fit as he did well with the young guys in Colorado. If you get Hurdle, you might get a chance at signing Jeff Francis on a low base salary deal with incentives. Just a thought. When the free agent market becomes more clear, I will have more to say on this matter. But cutting these guys has to be the first move. They could probably get three better pieces for what Duke made alone in '10.

lolololol

Dump worthless players and get more worthless players? You clearly don't know what organization you're dealing with.

Show me some free agents the Pirates could sign that would add any wins to the club while still being affordable? Difference between a turd and a polished turd. The Pirates don't have the finances to free spend on even marginal upgrades. Some teams are hindered by money.

What good is it going to do to increase the payroll or switch out 3-4 players to supposedly cheaper and marginally better FAs for a team that lost 100+, has one of the worst rotations in the league, has the worst defense in the league, and has maybe...MAYBE 4 ML capable hitters.

It's much easier to set up a marketing campaign around Andy Laroche being the future.

[love_that_reefer]

Dump worthless players and get more worthless players? You clearly don't know what organization you're dealing with.

Where in any of that did you see me say dump worthless players for more worthless players? I said to get better talent for cheap. I can name over a dozen players that would come cheap and be head and shoulders above these worthless pieces of shit. I do know this franchise. Its a franchise that hangs on to talentless players for far too long and a franchise that hasn't sniffed .500 since Barry Bonds played there. Pirates have the finances to better this team and dumping these players would be a huge addition by subtraction and a start in the right direction.

What good is it going to do to increase the payroll or switch out 3-4 players to supposedly cheaper and marginally better FAs for a team that lost 100+, has one of the worst rotations in the league, has the worst defense in the league, and has maybe...MAYBE 4 ML capable hitters

I don't know, maybe to get better and put a better product on the field?? Weird concept for Pirates fans I know. You increase the payroll to improve on these problem areas. Your roll over and die attitude sure isn't going to do any good.

It's much easier to set up a marketing campaign around Andy Laroche being the future.

I pray for the Pirates and baseball's sake no one shares this view but you. What a terrible, loser attitude.

[K-Zone]

The only player that is worth keeping there is Andrew McCutchen.

[Sabu88]

You keep saying you can name some players the Pirates could sign that are cheaper and more talented. I have yet to see a list. Once the list is even compiled you have no way of proving that:


A) The player would provide a substantial upgrade at the position that would enable the team to win more games
B) The player would sign a cheaper contract than that of the player receiving arbitration

C) The talented player would sign with the Pirates


Logically, these mysterious cheaper more talented players wouldn't provide much more wins in the stat column for the Pirates. Even a player like Cliff Lee would probably only give the Pirates +5 wins max. Teams like the Pirates who have to invest their money wisely and guess when they'll be competitive don't have this option.


Also, you're not factoring the control aspect into players like Laroche. Unless these “more talented, cheaper players” decide to sign a multi-year contract that would be the equivalent of the remaining years of arbitration left on current Pirates, management is more likely to take the years of “control”.


That's something that has been a part of the new regimes “blueprint” (though you surely knew this). They value years of controlling the player (while still managing to contradict this by bringing up players like Alvarez and Lincoln too early and starting their clock...but why bother you with silly things you already know).


It's a philosophy you have to take when you don't have the money to resign your players outside their arbitration years. You'll find out the benefit of a high payroll team soon enough when the Giants fork over the dough to resign players like Posey in half a decade. Then again, nothing much gets through a thick skull. Hell Posey should be locked up for cheaper RIGHT NOW!!!!1!!1!!!


You bring up Zach Duke as basically being worthless. He is probably going to make 7 million$ next year through arbitration. On paper, this is a ****ing disaster. A 7 million$ arbitration year for a guy who had an ERA near 6?

Yes, but numbers can be deceiving. The Pirates have been in the bottom five in baseball in converting balls into play into outs every year since 2005. The only exception is 2009, when infield guru Perry Hill was part of the organization and brought that number towards middle of the pack. (Hill was subsequently booted off the team because he didn't agree with how management was taking the club the following season. The Pirates dropped to the bottom 5 again in 2010. You knew that though right? You knew that about Pirates management? Of course you did)


In that 2009 season, with the improved statistic, Duke finished with a 4.06 ERA and his BABIP dropped 30 points. Duke being a characteristic pitch to contact groundball pitcher, the improved defense proved a success for him. Hey, he also made the All Star team. You, of course, knew this about Duke in your thorough assessment of his abilities.


What happens if the Pirates nontender Duke and he goes to a club with the highest % of converting balls in play into outs? You're looking at a solid 3-4 starter.


A better suggestion would be perhaps see if Zach would resign a long term team for cheaper than 7 million a year, seeing his value under an improved defensive team.


Who are you going to get to replace Duke's innings and production behind this defense? How many more wins will they provide? Do you think innings eaters with a career era of 4.24 grow on trees? Much less, left handed ones?


Screw it, the Pirates should just go sign Cliff Lee. They can offer him the same contract the Yankees wi.....oh wait.




It's funny. You have this idea that the Pirates owners care that the team wins. For starters, let me give you a description of a Pirates PR commercial.


A picture of the skyline is shown. There's a time and date for a Styx concert. Another skyline shot. Shot of the ballpark. The dates for fireworks nights are shown.


What is missing from this commercial? Baseball.


So, when I sarcastically say shit like it's much easier to make marketing campaigns around Andy Laroche being the future of the team.....I mean it.


How else would you get by pushing out shit shakes like this?




Ahh, but what do I know? I live in Pittsburgh. I've been a fan of the team for over 20 years. I don't have any idea of how it's run or where it's been. So my arguments are so off the wall that scant suggestions from a fan of another team make much more sense. I mean what I'm saying is just loser talk, right?


You of course saw the Pirates as the clear front runner in the Miguel Sano sweepstakes a few years ago only to sour it with shady business tactics and dollar amount differences that measured in the hundreds of thousands that led to him eventually signing with the Twins?


You saw the Pirates go for signability in their drafts with players like Tony Sanchez and Daniel Moskos when more talented players like Zach Wheeler, Aaron Crow, and Matt Wieters were on the board those draft years?


You saw them trade franchise 3B Aramis Ramirez for a bag of baseballs, right?


You saw them trade a batting champion, Freddy Sanchez, for a marginal prospect in Tim Alderson. Didn't you even laugh in another thread about how John Bowker sucked donkey dick? Wasn't Javy Lopez a key reliever in your WS run? What did the Pirates get for him again?


I could go on for a good 4-5 pages, but we're already approaching TL DR territory.


That's okay though. Pirates fans should continue to be optimistic. There are so many things you can do with a limited payroll and shitty owners. If only they can go 50% and have incompetent spending sprees like the Giants did for years until they lucked into solid players in the first round of the draft. Wonderful philosophy to build around.

[love_that_reefer]

I stopped at like the second paragraph You're right dude. Keep clinging to shit talent based soley on the fact that you can control that shit talent for years to come. What an intelligent way of running a ballclub!! Why try and get better?? What a ****ing retarded concept I had!!!! Just sit on the money and NEVER spend it to improve this pathetic joke of a franchise. Give $6 million to Zach Duke!! That's a real smart play. Talk about spending your money wisely!! The Pirates should keep the players I mentioned, they're really talented and there is no one better on the free agent market near the same price. Pirates need more Andy LaRoche's and Zach Duke's so they can go for the #1 pick in the draft for years and years to come and pray they turn out to be something useful. WHAT THE **** WAS I THINKING????

EDIT: After thinking this over, they should try and trade Duke first and hope for the best. If they can't, dump him. You say the Pirates should invest their money wisely. Wasting a penny on any of the players I mentioned is not spending wisely. I went on to read your assessment of Duke and started laughing yet again. Duke does not miss bats and get shit hard quite frequently. The Pirates poor defense plays a part but more so does Duke ineffective stuff. He's only reached 200 innings twice so he's not really an innings eater and bringing up his All Star appearance made me chuckle out loud. You say with an improved defense Duke's numbers would improve but from your standpoint there is no need to improve and they need to keep guys like LaRoche and Young. Why pay Duke if the defense is the same and going to get the same shitty results? Makes no sense. The man was almost dropped from the rotation near the end of the season when their games didn't matter. But you knew that right?? Then you went on to tell me how things are run in Pittsburgh. I forgot the point of this thread was to say what I would do as GM, not how things have been run. We all know they have been doing a terrible job. Why continue the trend? I am so sorry to strike a nerve on saying what I would do to help this team.

[love_that_reefer]

The Pirates released Chris Jakubauskas and saw Brandon Moss elect free agency. Moss arrived in Pittsburgh in the Jason Bay trade, but he hit just .228/.295/.373 in parts of three seasons for the Pirates.

Definitely a good start!

[Sabu88]

I stopped at like the second paragraph You're right dude. Keep clinging to shit talent based soley on the fact that you can control that shit talent for years to come. What an intelligent way of running a ballclub!! Why try and get better?? What a ****ing retarded concept I had!!!! Just sit on the money and NEVER spend it to improve this pathetic joke of a franchise. Give $6 million to Zach Duke!! That's a real smart play. Talk about spending your money wisely!! The Pirates should keep the players I mentioned, they're really talented and there is no one better on the free agent market near the same price. Pirates need more Andy LaRoche's and Zach Duke's so they can go for the #1 pick in the draft for years and years to come and pray they turn out to be something useful. WHAT THE **** WAS I THINKING????

EDIT: After thinking this over, they should try and trade Duke first and hope for the best. If they can't, dump him. You say the Pirates should invest their money wisely. Wasting a penny on any of the players I mentioned is not spending wisely. I went on to read your assessment of Duke and started laughing yet again. Duke does not miss bats and get shit hard quite frequently. The Pirates poor defense plays a part but more so does Duke ineffective stuff. He's only reached 200 innings twice so he's not really an innings eater and bringing up his All Star appearance made me chuckle out loud. You say with an improved defense Duke's numbers would improve but from your standpoint there is no need to improve and they need to keep guys like LaRoche and Young. Why pay Duke if the defense is the same and going to get the same shitty results? Makes no sense. The man was almost dropped from the rotation near the end of the season when their games didn't matter. But you knew that right?? Then you went on to tell me how things are run in Pittsburgh. I forgot the point of this thread was to say what I would do as GM, not how things have been run. We all know they have been doing a terrible job. Why continue the trend? I am so sorry to strike a nerve on saying what I would do to help this team.

*sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*

still waiting for that list buddy

The team needs to improve in every aspect to be a winning club. That's stating the obvious. I'm just calling your idea of improvement unrealistic and ****ing oblivious.

You didn't strike a nerve about the Pirates, don't worry. You struck a nerve by continuing your charade of payroll doesn't matter in a useless thread about a team you know nothing about despite the fact the entire populous of this board called you a ****ing moron in the initial thread.

Stop contradicting yourself in your asinine replies too.

Just sit on the money and NEVER spend it to improve this pathetic joke of a franchise. Give $6 million to Zach Duke!!

How do you sit on the money by spending it?


and it's laughable to mention what you'd do as the Pirates GM. I was just giving you a brief on how the organization is run. If you're going to play Pirates GM for a day, just thought you might like to know what you're dealing with. I think it's cute you get to play GM in your head where all the players are magically affordable and all your solutions are right there for the taking. I was giving you context. If the fans care more about fireworks, there's no reason to waste time on your magical "less expensive more talented players". The ownership isn't interested in spending money and fielding a competitive team. They want to line their pockets.

[NYgiantsfan5689]

If I were the Pirates GM, I know what I'd do. I'd quit!

Sabu88 makes a good point, the owners don't give a crap. They actually have loads of money (as does the owner of KC), but chooses to keep it to himself rather than spend it on the team. Their scouting department clearly sucks since the minors is full of duds (oh right, McCutchen, well, even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes). And when they do get a good player, the GM is forced by ownership to trade him because the owners won't spend the money to keep him.

It's the worst possible GM job and there's no reason for anyone to take it. It's a dead end. I feel sorry for those Pirates fans because it's really a horrible situation with no end in sight, until the team is sold to new ownership.

[love_that_reefer]

*sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*

still waiting for that list buddy

The team needs to improve in every aspect to be a winning club. That's stating the obvious. I'm just calling your idea of improvement unrealistic and ****ing oblivious.

You didn't strike a nerve about the Pirates, don't worry. You struck a nerve by continuing your charade of payroll doesn't matter in a useless thread about a team you know nothing about despite the fact the entire populous of this board called you a ****ing moron in the initial thread.

Stop contradicting yourself in your asinine replies too.

How do you sit on the money by spending it?


and it's laughable to mention what you'd do as the Pirates GM. I was just giving you a brief on how the organization is run. If you're going to play Pirates GM for a day, just thought you might like to know what you're dealing with. I think it's cute you get to play GM in your head where all the players are magically affordable and all your solutions are right there for the taking. I was giving you context. If the fans care more about fireworks, there's no reason to waste time on your magical "less expensive more talented players". The ownership isn't interested in spending money and fielding a competitive team. They want to line their pockets.

You are simply priceless my friend!! If you cared to read the first post, I said I would have a list when the free agent market became more clear. My idea of improvement is unrealistic? How is dumping shit-covered players and getting better ones unrealistic? I do know about the Pirates and their payroll problems and that's why I haven't said for them to go out and spend heavy on big time free agent players. Just to stop paying players that suck and do nothing to help win ballgames. You're ****ing clueless man!! The Pirates have even come out and said they are adding payrool too but you knew that since you know more about the Pirates than I do, right?

Hey, why don't you quote me out of context some more! And you call my replies asinine Here's the rest of the quote if you cared to read. Reading comprehension is key bud.

Just sit on the money and NEVER spend it to improve this pathetic joke of a franchise. Give $6 million to Zach Duke!! That's a real smart play. Talk about spending your money wisely!!

Its called sarcasm. It was a knock on you thinking Duke was good and saying the Pirates have to spend their money wisely. Spending $6 million to Duke is about as dumb as you can get.

You keep quoting me as saying I could get "less expensive, more talented players" but again, you simply are reading only what you want to. Never did I say that. While you find it cute that I can play GM in my head and actually think of ways to improve this ballclub without breaking the bank, I find it ****ing disgusting that you rather just keep paying the same shitty players only because they are under control for the next few years. At least I thought of realistic, helpful ways while you do....well nothing. You can try and give context all ****ing day, doesn't change what I would do with this franchise. We all know what the GMs have been doing in the past. You hold no secret. But that the Pirates are looking to actually spend money this offseason, your thoughts on the matter are wrong thus far. I just keeping laughing at the idea that you think its unrealistic finding better players than Duke, LaRoche, Young and Karstens. and call improving this team "magical". Keep up the shitty work!!

[love_that_reefer]

If I were the Pirates GM, I know what I'd do. I'd quit!

Sabu88 makes a good point, the owners don't give a crap. They actually have loads of money (as does the owner of KC), but chooses to keep it to himself rather than spend it on the team. Their scouting department clearly sucks since the minors is full of duds (oh right, McCutchen, well, even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes). And when they do get a good player, the GM is forced by ownership to trade him because the owners won't spend the money to keep him.

It's the worst possible GM job and there's no reason for anyone to take it. It's a dead end. I feel sorry for those Pirates fans because it's really a horrible situation with no end in sight, until the team is sold to new ownership.

Sabu is also wrong in that the Pirates aren't willing to spend. They have already said they will be buyers this offseason. This wasn't a thread on what the Pirates were going to do, just what I would do for starters and that's cut the terrible players that contribute nothing to help win. The scouting department has been doing very well the past few season too so that isn't accurate.

[Sabu88]

Still waiting for this list.

You know how many times the Pirates have said they'd be "buyers"?

Probably not.

The Pirates are so willing to spend money you say? Wow

The entire foundation of your first post was built on something you haven't given me. That's why I call it magical because all you've done is given me a solution but haven't mapped it out at all. I'm telling you why your solution wont work. You just kept telling me it's a solution.

So far emoticons have really been the only thing of substance in any of your posts.

[love_that_reefer]

Jesus ****ing christ!! You still can't read can you?? You're adorable!!!
From my first post:

When the free agent market becomes more clear, I will have more to say on this matter. But cutting these guys has to be the first move. They could probably get three better pieces for what Duke made alone in '10.

And then this:

If you cared to read the first post, I said I would have a list when the free agent market became more clear.

The only thing of substance from your posts have been....well... nothing except showing your loser attitude and lack of reading comprehension. Get your panties more in a wad over cutting four well below players. Shows your baseball intellect!

[love_that_reefer]

Pirates designated INF/OF Delwyn Young for assignment.
Young plays poor defense, but he does offer some versatility with experience at second base and both corner outfield spots. He hasn't been able to hit with consistency at the major league level, but he's not a slouch at the plate and should be able to find a utility job somewhere.

Pirates designated 3B Andy LaRoche for assignment.
A former top prospect with the Dodgers, LaRoche never lived up to expectations in Pittsburgh, hitting only .206/.268/.287 in 247 at-bats in 2010. He had good on-base skills and decent power in his minor league career, but the skills simply haven't translated over to the major league level. Now 27, LaRoche should be able to catch on somewhere with a minor league deal.

Pirates designated LHP Zach Duke for assignment.
Pirates GM Neal Huntington said the team tried to negotiate a deal with Duke and also talked to other teams about a trade, but neither proved successful. Duke had a decent 2009 season but otherwise has been one of the worst pitchers in baseball since his impressive rookie year. The southpaw posted a 5.72 ERA and 1.65 WHIP in 2010 and has a career K/9 rate of 4.7. He'll probably have to settle for a minor league deal with a spring training invite somewhere.

HAHAHAHAHA Looks like Huntington did the "unrealistic"!! I swear Huntington must have read this. Good job by Huntington cutting the fat off this team. These guys have no future. Suck on it Sabu! Huntington definitely did the right thing here in getting rid of busts like LaRoche and Duke and helping them get past the loser mentality. Now Huntington has to spend money wisely and get better quality players. Shouldn't be too hard to replace what is now gone but he needs a lot of help in the rotation. Jeff Francis has been rumored as has Jorge de la Rosa. Keep up the good work Huntington

[love_that_reefer]

EDIT: After thinking this over, they should try and trade Duke first and hope for the best.

Diamondbacks acquired LHP Zach Duke from the Pirates for a player to be named later.
Duke has always been touted as a guy with a lot of talent, but it has never exactly translated to the mound. He posted an ugly 8-15 record, 5.72 ERA and 1.65 WHIP over 29 starts this past season for Pittsburgh, striking out only 96 batters and walking 51.

Keep doing what your doing Neal!!