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San Francisco GiantsI had no thoughts on this at all. I am glad it went to a starting pitcher instead of a closer. Closers don't need to win it unless no other SP does well.
I had no thoughts on this at all. I am glad it went to a starting pitcher instead of a closer. Closers don't need to win it unless no other SP does well.
Santana got shafted here.
I'm glad Wins and Losses are so important. Did Dan O'Brien vote over and over on this?
The Simpson family gathers around, as Homer places Bart's passed test on the fridge.)
Homer: We're proud of you, boy.
Bart: Thanks, Dad. But part of this D-minus belongs to God.
I've got 5 words to say:
What a load of bull.
Santana did not deserve it, he was on a 3rd place team that was nowhere near the postseason and had 7 losses w/ only 16 wins. I know wins can be overrated but 7 losses is alot w/ only 16 wins. This was a year w/ no clear cut SP as the fave and mariano should have won it, he was robbed.Originally Posted by Fishercat
It generally goes to the best pitcher whose team is at least in the race, it's rare for a pitcher to get it on a team that is nowhere near the postseason race and when your record is only 16-7(I know in the other important categories he was at the top) and your team is out of it by Sept then you aren't winning the CY.
KRod was not even close to mariano. Street was the only closer even near Mariano.i thought K-Rod was the better pitcher myself (than rivera)
Just because there's no clear cut SP as a winner doesn't mean that a relief pitcher should get it.
While wins are wayyyyyyyy overrated in this... Mariano was not a clear cut dominant, carry his team, pitcher either... IMHO there was no such pitcher in the AL this year....
I believe that this is the highest ERA in a long while for a Cy Young winner... IMHO if you would take the average amount of blown saves and add it to Colon's W total (or subratct if if you will)... he becomes a 17 game winner... in my opinion, Santana, in that situation, is the clear cut better choice....
While I may not like the fact that an above average year get Colon this award, I really can't see a HUGE fuss being made about it when no other pitcher really performed great
AND BTW... where the team finishes in the standings should have no bearing on an INDIVIDUAL award... I don't care if the best pitcher is on a last place team that only won 40 games, the best player should get the individual award
I agree w/ that but when we have a dominant closer that closer should get it.
he absolutely was. he wasn't gange '03(which was probably the best season for a closer in history) but he was dominant for us 95% of the year.While wins are wayyyyyyyy overrated in this... Mariano was not a clear cut dominant, carry his team, pitcher either...
I think it should, a pitcher not pitching in a pennant race has no pressure. JNow if a pitcher on a bad team has aan all-time type year then I'd have no problem but while Santana was worthy the fact that he was pitching in maningless games and didn't put up unreal #s tell me he should not have won it.AND BTW... where the team finishes in the standings should have no bearing on an INDIVIDUAL award... I don't care if the best pitcher is on a last place team that only won 40 games, the best player should get the individual award
In VORP, Mariano Rivera is second among relievers to Huston Street, and 50th overall.
Yeah. Dominant.
Being a great player on a crap team is no presure? Puh-lease... Do competitive players put it in their mind set that they must accept fate and want to lose?? Nope... Hell, look at Randy Johnson in his last year with the D-Backs...
And I will accept that Rivera was ONE of the better closers this year... but he was not a carry his team, uber dominant closer... IMHO a closer will only win with a completely dominant year.. he simply was not completely dominant
So you are telling me Santana or a pitcher on a team out of it in Sept have the same amount of pressure as a pitcher who is pitching for his team's season?
Don't just bring up 1 stat and again mariano had the pressure of a season on him, no team is under more pressure than the Yanks b/c of the payroll and they were clawing all year in which Mariano was a main reason they were able to come back.In VORP, Mariano Rivera is second among relievers to Huston Street, and 50th overall.
I am saying that it is pressure, though it may be a different type of pressure... pitchers such as RJ, in his last year with the D-Backs, do stay uber competitive and feel pressure...
Individual awards and prowess are not inherently hand in hand with team performance... bad teams can have great players (boy, does this sound like we're arguing with old Joke again)...
Again... Rivera was ONE of the top closers this year... but was not uber dominant... and for a closer to win out over a starter, it has to be an uber dominant, masterful, lights out season... quite simply, that was not Rivera's season
It's a different type of pressure, it doesn't effect a pennant race and teammates. pressure fighting for a playoff spot is much greater than individual pressure.pitchers such as RJ, in his last year with the D-Backs, do stay uber competitive and feel pressure...
I agree that a player from a bad team can win an award BUT it should be if there are no clear cut candidates from the winning teams. Again, I'll take a player who has a little less stats and comes through to help his team win big games than a player who puts up big #s on a bad team.Individual awards and prowess are not inherently hand in hand with team performance... bad teams can have great players (boy, does this sound like we're arguing with old Joke again)...
He was by far the best closer in baseball, he was dominant outside of the 1st week of the year and he is the best closer in MLB history- he deserved the Award. Normally I do't even care about the Awards but w/ the career he's had, the year he had last year after everyone saying he was done and the fact that there were no dominant starters he should have gotten it.Again... Rivera was ONE of the top closers this year... but was not uber dominant... and for a closer to win out over a starter, it has to be an uber dominant, masterful, lights out season... quite simply, that was not Rivera's season
Courtesy of my friend from another board.
Bartolo Colon
Andre the Giant.
Past year's performances have no bearing on yearly awards, or at least they SHOULD not..... career numbers mean nothing for the 2005 season.... yearly awards are a "what have you done for me lately" thing.... He was not the most dominant closer in baseball this year... especially "by far"... and he would have had to have been completely lights out to beat a starter out of the award.....
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