Bill Simmons: Is baseball really a team sport?

[NYgiantsfan5689]

This is incredibly written and really makes me have a different view on the sport. Ultimately, he's right.

Another Simmons gem. Here's the part of the article on baseball in general. Read the rest of it, it's on A-Rod and is really good.

Comparing him [A-Rod] with Barry Bonds, it's no contest. Bonds hogged three lockers, disparaged teammates, antagonized media members and allegedly cheated to get an edge. He sounded like an unequivocal nightmare, a perfect storm of rudeness. Other notorious cancers (Carl Everett, Albert Belle, Jeff Kent, Ugueth Urbina) earned their reputations by being hotheaded or fighting teammates or barking at team employees. In the end, even Manny went to the dark side, becoming such a distraction that Boston paid the Dodgers to take him.

Now explain this to me: How did teams "miraculously" succeed with every player in the previous paragraph? Everett won a ring with the White Sox. Kent and Bonds came within bullpen collapses of winning one of their own. A famous goofball like Manny won two rings, played on 10 playoff teams and (very, very secretly) compiled one of the most successful résumés in baseball history. Heck, Urbina closed for Florida's 2003 title team and went to prison four years later for hacking two Venezuelan ranch hands with a machete and pouring gasoline over them. He hacked them with a machete and poured gasoline over them! Think this was a good guy?
Look, we love to romanticize clubhouse chemistry, mainly because we don't understand it, but also because it's a story line with legs. These guys didn't win because they were good, they won because they got along! They lifted one another, looked out for one another! They were a team! You know, the "Hoosiers" model. Does this apply to basketball, football and hockey? Absolutely. You can't succeed individually without help from teammates, and you can fail individually because of teammates. That fragile dynamic cannot be compromised.

A-Rod has even shattered the Tyson Zone.

But baseball … baseball is an individual sport masquerading as a team sport. You are a worker bee. You have a job, and it's up to you to execute it. Yeah, it's always better to get along, but couldn't you say that about any work situation? Ultimately, it's just you. You're the one pitching, you're the one hitting, you're the one fielding. If everyone is pulling for one another, fantastic. You can even win a division that way -- good karma invariably leads to goofy bounces and luck. On the other hand, the deliriously happy post-Manny Red Sox mustered just three hits in their biggest game of the season (Game 7, 2008 ALCS). At some point in baseball, talent trumps all.
Don't believe me? Read Sparky Lyle's "The Bronx Zoo" for the hilarious Reggie Jackson stories. Reggie made Bonds seem more saintly than the blind guy on "American Idol." There was no bigger jerk or attention hog. During an era in which ballplayers behaved a certain way (reserved, respectful, hard-nosed, unselfish), Reggie made his own rules. For that, his teammates reviled him. Actually, they probably wanted to strangle him.
They also won the 1977 and '78 World Series with him.
Throw in three titles in Oakland and Reggie Jackson -- the biggest clubhouse cancer of his generation -- won five rings in seven years. Which makes me think baseball chemistry is more overrated than Tim Burton. If that's even possible.
I will even go this far: There are undeniable positives to having one antisocial wild card in any close-knit environment. You know that one grating guy in your dorm hall or in your office? Don't you like *****ing about him? You lob grenades at him as soon as he leaves the room. He's your running joke, an easy target. But he's also a galvanizing force, one of the few things that bring everyone else together: a mutual contempt for one human being that won't go away. You're stuck with him, so you make the best of it -- by belittling him.
It's a common bond of sorts. Even as you believe he's tearing your group apart, he's bringing it closer and distracting anyone from turning on someone else. He's your mean decoy, your Paula Abdul, your Newman. He's your necessary evil.

What do you guys think? Do you agree with Simmons that baseball is really an "individual sport masquerading as a team sport?"

It's really an interesting concept. I tend to agree with him after he makes his point. Talent does rule all.

[love_that_reefer]

I disagree 100%. Guys like Kent and Bonds were distractions in the clubhouse but they were the ultimate TEAM players inside those white lines. Bonds made his team better with his presence in that lineup, same for Albert Belle. No one man can win a ballgame but one can help elevate a team. Still takes an entire team to be successful and to score runs. I would say baseball is the ultimate team sport!

[NYgiantsfan5689]

I disagree, I still think football is the ultimate team sport. You can win the game by yourself in baseball. In football there is no physical way to win a game by yourself.

[love_that_reefer]

You will have to explain how one wins a game by one's self in baseball. I have a feeling you are not because it is impossible.

[NYgiantsfan5689]

A single player can hit 3 home runs while the rest of his team's offense does nothing, and you win 3-2. Maybe you can't win COMPLETELY by yourself, but it's more individual dependant than football. In football, if one person screws up, you are doomed. In baseball, if 7 people screw up, you can still win

[Kingdom]

I think it's obviously a team sport but I also think one or two guys can really bring a team down chemistry wise. But that can happen for football, basketball, and hockey.

Mission- pretty ironic this was brought up since it's what I'm planning on discussing this weekend. Perfect timing, eh?

[love_that_reefer]

I disagree again. A guy can hit 3 HRs but who pitches for his team? Plays defense? Baseball is such an intricate sport. In football, if one screws up you aren't doomed. You get four tries to make something happen. In baseball you get three. I am not going to get into any sort of discussion comparing football to baseball because they are completely different. No one person can win a ballgame in either sport, especially in baseball! I say its the ultimate sport because its such an intricate sport. Sac bunts, sac flies, moving runners into scoring positions, pick off moves, stolen bases, dropped third strikes, advancing runners, etc, etc..

[NYgiantsfan5689]

yea i agree, i'm not gonna bother arguing that haha. too much work. but i just think that in football, if you miss an assignment as a corner, it's over, TD. but both sports offer chances, so it's a tough argument. i still hold that football is the ultimate team sport. there's just as much if not more complications to the sport.

[love_that_reefer]

If you throw a hanger in baseball, its a homer. Something to think about

[rockin500]

I disagree again. A guy can hit 3 HRs but who pitches for his team? Plays defense? Baseball is such an intricate sport. In football, if one screws up you aren't doomed. You get four tries to make something happen. In baseball you get three. I am not going to get into any sort of discussion comparing football to baseball because they are completely different. No one person can win a ballgame in either sport, especially in baseball! I say its the ultimate sport because its such an intricate sport. Sac bunts, sac flies, moving runners into scoring positions, pick off moves, stolen bases, dropped third strikes, advancing runners, etc, etc..

football is more of team sport than baseball. On offense it most certainly is and certainly on defense as well.

In baseball, the offense is primarily individual. ultimately, its about making good contact and driving the ball as good as you can for 8 out of 9 spots in the lineup. defense, of course, IS team reliant as it relies on positioning and all that fun stuff.

so baseball isnt exactly the most team oriented of sports. it is, but it isnt.

[love_that_reefer]

In your opinion rockin

[GiantsFanatic]

Golf and Tennis are great team sports.