Milton Bradley to Oakland

[McKain]

Errors are almost entirely nonindicative of a player's defensive ability.

And 33 is pretty old for a guy who's had a bunch of injuries through his career.

[Providence A's]

Well, his defensive numbers are very similar to Bradley's and Kotsay's. Both of whom are generally praised as "good defensive outfielders"

And either way he made ZERO errors last year, so even if you don't like errors as a statistic, he made none, so he at least gets bumped out of the "pretty below average" category.

[McKain]

And defensive numbers are very bad stats to judge a player's actual defensive ability.

[Providence A's]

And defensive numbers are very bad stats to judge a player's actual defensive ability.

Then I guess the same can be said about offensive stats and any stat.

What are you basing his defense on then? Care to elaborate how you came to the conclusion that he's "pretty below average?" Did you watch every Red Sox and A's game last year and see him suck?

[McKain]

I suppose if all offensive stats were as subjective as most defensive stats, then sure, they'd be just as useless as defensive stats. An error is determined to be an error by a person making a judgement call; an at-bat is determined to be an at-bat because the player had a plate appearance that did not result in a walk or being hit by a pitch.

I saw at least 70 of Payton's games last year and determined him to be pretty below average. You clearly think differently.

[Providence A's]

I don't think he's Mr. Gold Glove, but we could do worse for what is our 4th outfielder right now...he's probably going to be moved anyway.

[Providence A's]

I suppose if all offensive stats were as subjective as most defensive stats, then sure, they'd be just as useless as defensive stats. An error is determined to be an error by a person making a judgement call; an at-bat is determined to be an at-bat because the player had a plate appearance that did not result in a walk or being hit by a pitch.

Strikes and balls are called by umpires and therefore are subjective. An umpire calling a hitter safe or out on a play at first is also subjective. And the errors thing works for or against the hitters, too. Scorers can give a player a hit when it may have been an error...so it works both ways.

[McKain]

The fact is, there are far more offensive stats that are entirely objective than there are defensive stats that are entirely objective (there are virtually none, or at least none I can think of off the top of my head).

[Providence A's]

As I said, currently he's our 4th OF and I can live with that. But it's more likely he will be moved.

[McKain]

If they move him, I'd assume Swisher gets right-field and then they'll play Dan Johnson at 1st, and hope they pick up Big Hurt and DH him?

[love_that_reefer]

Everyone has their own dumbass way at looking stats. I absolutley hate people who dismiss a .300 average for no reason other than "average isn't everything". Average tells you about how good a hitter someone is. I don't know where this one is going but just a rant. Best way to evaluate defense is by watching a lot of baseball and that's it. Stats are only there to help prove a case, not make it. Bradley in left is more than adequate in left field especially with Kotsay heling him out. I love this move as long as Bradley keeps his cool.

[Providence A's]

If they move him, I'd assume Swisher gets right-field and then they'll play Dan Johnson at 1st, and hope they pick up Big Hurt and DH him?

Johnson is our 1st baseman and Swisher is in RF. Kotsay in CF and Bradley in LF. It looks like we are going to sign Thomas and he will be the DH. Payton is the odd man out unless he is dealt or Kotsay (or someone else). I'd rather keep Kotsay.

So as of now without Thomas

Kendall C
Johnson 1B
Ellis 2B
Crosby SS
Chavez 3B
Bradley LF
Kotsay CF
Swisher RF
Payton/Kielty DH

With Thomas

Thomas DH
Payton/Kielty RB (right bench)

We don't have to move Payton, but the reason the Sox moved him was because he didn't want to be a 4th OF...and right now he is. Swisher can play 1B, so can Crosby...Swisher may spell Johnson at first and Johnson can DH, but Johnson will be the starting 1B with Swisher in RF. I'm sure things will change before opening day anyway.

[HollywoodLeo]

i'll always remember Payton for one thing, though.