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San Francisco GiantsI lost all respect for Baseball Prospectus as a news breaking entity when Will Carroll reported the Santana to the Red Sox deal being done.
I lost all respect for Baseball Prospectus as a news breaking entity when Will Carroll reported the Santana to the Red Sox deal being done.
Save Phil Hughes
You still don't gte it, he's not THE leader but they follow his lead in october as none of them can hit in october anymore. Boston follows Manny & Ortiz's lewad where average hitters all of a sudden can hit when it matters meanwhile we've had the best reg season lineup in MLB for years but we can't hit in october.Originally Posted by love_that_reefer
I watch enough Yankee games not to be dumb enough to call Arod the leader because he isn't! They follow Arod's bat in October?That's the dumbest ****ing thing I have ever heard!!! Its not his fault the team collapses in October, the Yankees have been outmatched in October plain and simple. To think Jeter and Posada followed Arod who has won zero titles says a lot about yourself!
Holliday really buckled under pressure last year when they won all those games in September to come back and force a one game playoff didn't he? He also buckled under pressure when he hit a two run double in the 9th in that one game playoff off one of the best closers of all-time right? Holliday couldn't handle the pressure so much that he hit .290+ in the playoffs last year!! Man this guy cannot handle pressure!! Holliday can replace everything Manny brings to the table and provide better defense and even hustles. He doesn't ask to sit in big games against the Yankees either. Holliday can replace Manny's "fantasy" numbers and bring more to the table than Manny.
WOW!! Holliday hits well in a hitter's park?? What the **** do you think Fenway Park is? Holliday has hit over .300 the past two years away from Coors but you failed to mention that gem! The Sox will be getting an improving player instead of a declining headache and with that, they will not take any hit. Holliday would be a huge lift to the Sox but keep thinking Arod is a leader and that Holliday somehow can't handle pressure even though he was triumphant in his first taste of the postseason. Again if you are dumb enough to believe Arod is a leader, you'll believe anything!
Playing under pressure in Colorado and Boston are 2 different beats especially w/ the Sox expectations now being World Championships.
Hit hit over .300 last year but .301 while at home was .376 in '06 it was .373 to .280, in '05 it was .357 to .256. For his career he's a .365 hitter at home and .277 away from home.
No one said Holliday cannot handle pressure(even though he wasn't great in October last year- great compared to ARod) it's Manny's attitude that spreads throughout the Sox clubhouse. it's why they could come back from 3-0 and 3-1- 3-0 NEVER happens and 3-1 rarely happens but the Sox did BOTH.
Keep thinking it's all about fantasy #s and ignore reality.
The difference is Pedro was not a big game pitcher and Boston won in '04 b/c they got Schilling. Pedro was along for the ride. Pedro hadn't been great in years and had only 1 great postseason which was in the 90s.
You are comparing a .26 difference to almost 1.00 difference's? Manny also hit 25 home HRs and 20 on the road which is comparable unlike Holliday. manny's home and road #s are almost identical for his career.
I'd prefer they didn't get Holliday but anyone but Manny hurts the Sox and the rest of the AL contdners will be forming a conga line to celebrate the stupidity of Boston if they get rid of him.
25-11
06- 22-12
05-12-7
You don't understand, if the Red Sox trade Manny in the proposed 3 way deal they will be in just good shape, Jason Bay is a career .285-31-102 guy, at this point thats about the maximum you can expect, you can talk about Manny's postseason experience all you want but as a Sox fan, I know the only true clutch hitter we got for them is Ortiz, give him some support you'll be fine...
Also Jason Bay will put up Manny like #'s in 2009 for less than half the price (7.5 mil) so they could use that money towards another hitter (say Holliday) or Pitcher (Sheets or Sabathia), and if the Sox don't resign Bay he'll still be Class A in 2009... this deal makes a lot of sense for them, they get to stay competitive this year with Bay and Grabow, but they also set themselves up perfectly for next year
League Team Division Titles Wild Card WS Wins Years as GM MSL Seattle 0 0 0 1
Seattle GM since July 2065
Royals GM since January 2005
Oakland GM in MSL History
3 Division Titles (4 Wild Card Berths) 1 World Series
RIP TBSL Los Angeles Angels 2012 WS Champs
It's not about just #s, while diffiuclt they could get close to Manny's #s. manny means alot more to that team than just his #s. I will be thrilled if Boston trades him, I will no longer be worried about the Sox this year.
If the Sox get Bay and Grabow, the only team you shouldn't be worried about anymore is the Yankees cause they will have no shot
League Team Division Titles Wild Card WS Wins Years as GM MSL Seattle 0 0 0 1
Seattle GM since July 2065
Royals GM since January 2005
Oakland GM in MSL History
3 Division Titles (4 Wild Card Berths) 1 World Series
RIP TBSL Los Angeles Angels 2012 WS Champs
Well, even if the deal goes down, rumor has it that Grabow would be going to Florida, not Boston. Plus, the Bucs don't seem to wanna make this deal anymore...
Grabow wouldn't go to Florida anymore because they got Rhodes from Seattle, no reason to get 2 lefties that do the same thing... if the Pirates back out, the Dodgers have hopped in on this and are willing to part with Kemp which for me is great cause he's a young stud under team control for a while... the Pirates are acting like they aren't interested hoping the Rays or Sox overpay but i believe both franchises are too firm in their beliefs to move and if the Pirates don't make 1 move they are setting themselves back again
League Team Division Titles Wild Card WS Wins Years as GM MSL Seattle 0 0 0 1
Seattle GM since July 2065
Royals GM since January 2005
Oakland GM in MSL History
3 Division Titles (4 Wild Card Berths) 1 World Series
RIP TBSL Los Angeles Angels 2012 WS Champs
Well, if Grabow doesn't go to florida(since that was the original plan) doesn't the deal have to be slightly reconfigured? That's an issue.
The Dodgers may have to hop in, but they will have less than 3 hours to work out an entire deal for a very high paid guy. That's not easy.
The Pirates are just being retarded. I agree with you on that.
Apparently you haven't followed the Sox long, hopefully we get the chance to see what they can do w/o Manny.
Yes I get it!! YOU ARE A MORON!!! To think the Yankees follow Arod anywhere when most of them have been to October before and know how to play but seem to follow a guy who hasn;t won anything is retarded!! Let me say this again...retarded. Arod is not the reason the bats cooled in October. Arod is not a leader in any fashion. The Yankees weren't winning championships before Arod. I guess they were following Giambi then
Keep using Holliday's stats from when he first came into the league. I will use the numbers that are more recent since he keeps getting better and is showing he can hit on the road. Keep ignoring that because it helps make my argument.
Holliday had a great postseason last year and doesn't buckle under pressure. Where the hell are you getting lost?? Arod's postseason fails in comparison to Holliday!!! Holliday lead a team last year that had NO CHANCE of making the playoffs but indeed went all the way to the WS. To say Holliday's attitude is different and couldn't come back from 3-0, 3-1 is just dumb and has no backing. My argument has actual facts and support behind it!! Holliday was second in MVP voting last year and for a damn good reason!!
I explained in depth that it isn't his fantasy numbers!! Jesus ****ing Christ! Can you read? Reality suggest Holliday is on his way up, Manny on his way down!! Reality alos shows that Holliday is faster, younger and a much better defender. Man those just show up in fantasy stats don't they?????
Who cares??? They were both past their prime which is the whole point!! You cannot bank on 37 yr old OFers playing the NL. Pedro's postseason ability doesn't play into this equation.
Dude, you are ****ing lost!! His teammates, fans and management are tired of him!!! He is quitting on his team and sucking the life out of that team. He is no longer the Manny we are all used to seeing. Manny wants out and he finally is out! Red Sox are now happy to call Jason Bay a Red Sox.
It doesn't matter about the numbers, if your heart isn't in it, your not going to play well. It's been stated before that Manny head wasn't in the game, so get him out now. I don't want to call him a cancer, but I think you get the idea of where this is going. Attitudes rub off on people, and bad people will pollute the clubhouse.
Happy to see a good Canadian kid get some playing time here. I know he'll show up with bat in hand ready to play. You would think that anybody that was placed in this situation would want to play well, and you can bet Bay will do just that.
Obviously you don't get and you must live by your username.Yes I get it!! YOU ARE A MORON!!! To think the Yankees follow Arod anywhere when most of them have been to October before and know how to play but seem to follow a guy who hasn;t won anything is retarded!! Let me say this again...retarded. Arod is not the reason the bats cooled in October. Arod is not a leader in any fashion. The Yankees weren't winning championships before Arod. I guess they were following Giambi then
Keep using Holliday's stats from when he first came into the league. I will use the numbers that are more recent since he keeps getting better and is showing he can hit on the road. Keep ignoring that because it helps make my argument.
Holliday had a great postseason last year and doesn't buckle under pressure. Where the hell are you getting lost?? Arod's postseason fails in comparison to Holliday!!! Holliday lead a team last year that had NO CHANCE of making the playoffs but indeed went all the way to the WS. To say Holliday's attitude is different and couldn't come back from 3-0, 3-1 is just dumb and has no backing. My argument has actual facts and support behind it!! Holliday was second in MVP voting last year and for a damn good reason!!
I explained in depth that it isn't his fantasy numbers!! Jesus ****ing Christ! Can you read? Reality suggest Holliday is on his way up, Manny on his way down!! Reality alos shows that Holliday is faster, younger and a much better defender. Man those just show up in fantasy stats don't they?????
Who cares??? They were both past their prime which is the whole point!! You cannot bank on 37 yr old OFers playing the NL. Pedro's postseason ability doesn't play into this equation.
They weren't winning Chgampionships before ARod got there? They only had 3 non championship seasons in a row and 2 of those season they reached the WS, we haven't even won a playoff series in 4 years and the main culprit for that has been the awful play of ARod who has 1 RBI since Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS.
If you think Holliday or Bay or any other player can easily replace Manny in Boton you just don't follow baseball that close. it's not just about #s, it's about more than #s. I guess these are points you cannot understand and where am I using #s from early in Holliday's career? THIS YEAR isn't recent enough for you? a .72 difference in BNA isn't a big deal? double the HRs at home? more than double the RBI? This weak argument of yours is right up there w/ your KRod arguments
Do you understand that pressure in Colorado is a little different than Boston? Boston's goal is to win Championships now, Colorado was just happy to be there and had no expectations last year. This year they did, how's that working out? He also would have been replacing Manny, that increases pressure but of course it's all black and white #s w/ you so you couldn't possibly understand that.
You might want to ask yourself if you can read after screwing up my quote in your sig.I explained in depth that it isn't his fantasy numbers!! Jesus ****ing Christ! Can you read? Reality suggest Holliday is on his way up, Manny on his way down!! Reality alos shows that Holliday is faster, younger and a much better defender. Man those just show up in fantasy stats don't they?????
he does this All THE TIME. heck in '04 he sat out a big game against the Yankees and told people he wanted to go to the Yankees. Did that stop him from playing great baseball after that? He goes through episodes like this every year, his teammates love him. Gammons said right after it was announced 2 teammates sent him texts that were really upset. This move is AWFUL for Boston. Who protects ortiz now? Jason Bay?Dude, you are ****ing lost!! His teammates, fans and management are tired of him!!! He is quitting on his team and sucking the life out of that team. He is no longer the Manny we are all used to seeing. Manny wants out and he finally is out! Red Sox are now happy to call Jason Bay a Red Sox.
Just a few points since I am tired with arguing with a dumb dumb.
1. No one said replacing Manny was easy. Only you have said that.
2. I just forgot more baseball than you'll ever know. Its hilarious that a person who says Arod is a leader thinks I don't understand the game
3. Your arguments are weak. Holliday is hitting over .300 on the road this year. Who cares if he is hitting .72 points higher at home? Point remains he is above average on the road. Fenway is a hitter's park. Are the splits goign to change that much? NOPE!
4. You keep sayign it's more than fantasy numbers and I keep pointing out that Holliday is more than fantasy numbers. Apparently you have selective reading.
5. Not one Yankee is following Arod.
6. Pressure is pressure wherever you go. Holliday has handled himself in every aspect of the game especially in their amazing run to the WS.
7. My quote in my sig are you're exact words. Didn't screw that up. Sorry your dumbass remarks are funny.
8. What Manny has done this year cannot be compared to year's past. He quit on his team and FORCED them to make a trade.
9. Keep living in the past with Manny. Some of us are living in the now. Keep looking up at Boston NY.
AND FOR THE RECORD
ANYONE WHO THINKS HOLLIDAY CAN'T HIT ANYWHERE, ANYTIME IS A COMPLETE MORON!!!
You must have forgotten alot more than you realize.Just a few points since I am tired with arguing with a dumb dumb.
1. No one said replacing Manny was easy. Only you have said that.
2. I just forgot more baseball than you'll ever know. Its hilarious that a person who says Arod is a leader thinks I don't understand the game
3. Your arguments are weak. Holliday is hitting over .300 on the road this year. Who cares if he is hitting .72 points higher at home? Point remains he is above average on the road. Fenway is a hitter's park. Are the splits goign to change that much? NOPE!
4. You keep sayign it's more than fantasy numbers and I keep pointing out that Holliday is more than fantasy numbers. Apparently you have selective reading.
5. Not one Yankee is following Arod.
6. Pressure is pressure wherever you go. Holliday has handled himself in every aspect of the game especially in their amazing run to the WS.
7. My quote in my sig are you're exact words. Didn't screw that up. Sorry your dumbass remarks are funny.
8. What Manny has done this year cannot be compared to year's past. He quit on his team and FORCED them to make a trade.
9. Keep living in the past with Manny. Some of us are living in the now. Keep looking up at Boston NY.
AND FOR THE RECORD
ANYONE WHO THINKS HOLLIDAY CAN'T HIT ANYWHERE, ANYTIME IS A COMPLETE MORON!!!
keep harping on the AREod leader comment, it's not my fault you struggle w/ reading comprehension and anyone who thinks the save stat is meaningful should never criticize another baseball fan.
My arguments are weakHolliday is still hitting .70+ point different on the road and for his career he's batting almost 100 points LOWER on the road and he has more than double the HRs at home than he does on the road which includes this year where he has 12 home HRs and 6 on the road and last year where he had 25 at home and 11 on the road but keep spouting off and calling names.
How would you know if Holliday would mean more than fantasy #s to Boston? it took Boston 86 years to win another Championship and Manny was a key player in ending that drought and winning a 2nd w/in 4 years. Holliday was on a suprise team last year playign w/ very little pressure. There's a HUGE difference.
By saying pressure is pressure wherever you go you prove how little you know.
Manny has quit various times through the years. If Boston would have traded him in '03 when he sat out a Yankee game and then hung out w/ Enrique wilson in a bar saying how he wanted to be a Yankee then Boston would still be searching for their first title since 1918.
Are tyou talking trash about my team? Your team has never won a Championship in SF and you are talking trash about looking up at Boston?
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