Castellini: Liar or clueless?

[CincyRedsFan30]

He said when he took over we WILL compete. He said he would help bring championship baseball back to Cincinnati. He said he had a "burning desire to win."

Yet Narron remains the team's manager.

What is your verdict?

[redsrbetter]

He can't be that self-proclaimed baseball fan he introduced himself as. So you had season tickets? Did you wonder why the team sucked? Did you feel you could fix the problem? I bet you did. So why are you all of a sudden Lindner number 2?

I can't even give you that title yet because at least Lindner had the balls to give the ok for a Boone and then later on Miley firing. Even if Krivsky is too weak to address this. As a so-called baseball fan, you would know that there is a major problem here.

[Mario-Rijo]

Neither:

I agree Narron should be gone and if Narron is still here by the AS Break I will be shocked.

He said that he would get the Reds back to being annual contenders, but he also said that it wouldn't happen tommorrow. I just don't feel like a yr and a half is nearly long enough to make up my mind on whether he is clueless, but he's definitely not a liar. I gotta give him 4 total seasons (from the start of his tenure) based on the current situation, I mean I expect to be serious contenders after next season.

Now if he chooses to open up the wallet big time I could see us being in the running next year, but I think he will wait until we get that core primed.

'09
Bailey
Harang
Arroyo
Sean Watson??
Travis Wood, Darryl Thompson??


Cueto
Coffey (I hope he gets it together)
Bray
Salmon
Burton
??
??

C-Miguel Perez, (Mesoraco likely not ready yet)??
1B-Votto
2B-BP, Valaika
SS-Gonzo, BP, Janish, Cozart ??
3B-EE

RF-Bruce
CF-Hamilton
LF-Dunn? Frazier??

I think it's looking like a pretty good future.

[redsrbetter]

I think Perez was let go. Not positive on that but I think I read he was with another minor league system somewhere. if I am wrong I apologize. I am sure someone can confirm this.

Anyhow, maybe you are right Rijo. I just felt a since of urgency when he gave his speech. I had some pretty good stuff in this thread a few weeks back:

http://www.strike3forums.com/forums/...ainwashed.html

To further induce what Castellini's goals were when being introduced as the Reds new owner and see how it matches up with where we are today, we have to go back to that enchanting day of presentation. The day he anointed Reds fans with words of hope and encouragement.


Quote:
Ten years ago, the Cardinals' situation was almost identical to where the Reds are now. A long-range plan that focused on building a world class organization by putting the right people in the right jobs was put in place. Improved performance led to improved attendance. Improved attendance led to more revenue. More revenue led to more payroll. Now, the Cardinals are a strong, consistent winner.
This tidbit from our new owner spoke volumes. Notice how I used past tense there. It only spoke volumes because it is not speaking now. It provided hope to the fans and the organization, but that hope has faded because he has not followed through with his plan.

If he is thinking that he is building an organization much like the Cardinals, then he is on the wrong side of sanity.

"putting the right people in the right jobs was put in place."

Mr. Castellini, do you think Jerry Narron is the right people? And if you say that it is Krivsky's call and you trust his judgement, then you give the fans no choice but to doubt your judgement in hiring the wrong GM. Which is exactly the opposite of where you said you wanted to be.

Mr. Castellini, have you increased the payroll for this team? No you have not. Why do you think that is? Its because your plan was drawn out nicely, but you did not execute it properly. I simply do not see you caring enough as a "fan" to promote sound decisions.

Lets carry on:


Quote:
Our first step will be to create one of the most respected organizations in baseball. We'll forge a winning attitude and culture. We'll ensure that the best people are in the right roles with the resources to win.
Needless to say, keeping Narron on as manager is defeating his first step.



Quote:
In our Reds organization, if our fans ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
That is going to be our driving force.
We will create a winning team worthy of the unwavering loyalty of our fans.
We are America's first professional baseball team. We believe that once again we will be the best. We've seen how a winning organization shines a national spotlight on our community and our region. That's what this community deserves.
I thank you all for this opportunity.
We look forward to bringing championship baseball home for all of us. Thank you.

Again, good words. But where is he at with this? he is losing fans at great rates because he does not have a winner on the field. He is going to have to get passed the "we are better than this" stuff and actually make something happen that blooms a better product into a winning organization. You want to keep the fans happy because you want to keep revenue up. I get that, it is the best way to do business. But how do you keep them happy Mr. Castellini? You do just as you planned. You put the right people in the right positons to maximize profits, then use said profits to supply the resources needed to win.

To answer Atomic's great post, I think we are being brainwashed a bit. But not so much on the money perspective as on the personnel perspective. The money situation comes in to play after he sees the right guys making the right decisions. He doesn't have that right now. The man wants to see a competitive team being built from the ones he hired to make things happen. Those are not the right guys. At least his field manager is not. The GM's judgement on character far outweighs his judgement on talent. That is the only reason why Narron still has a job. But Castellini is going to have to step on Krivsky's toes for a moment and take charge. This way he can go forward with his plan. The shoe doesn't fit with the current management and the change has to be made now.

Castellini says it all starts with the right people, I couldn't agree more.

[Mario-Rijo]

As far as Narron, he didn't do anything necc. at the time to be fired, so was it unreasonable to think (for them, I knew better) he wasn't "the right guy, at that time". However at this point he has.

Perez BTW was injured the 1st half of the season and now is in Sarasota I believe just off the injury.

[GOREDSGO32]

Firing him now will serve no purpose - except put an interim guy in who will be pushed into the role and the Reds won't get better. Or worse - they do get better, and they end up signing the guy to a contract for doing average with a crappy squad - much like how Narron got the job after Miley was kicked out.

[redsrbetter]

Why does it matter if we get better or not anyway? Firing him now makes a lot of sense to me.

It will show this team and its fans that they are serious about "making this team better everyday." It will show that they do not want to stick to the status quo. It will show a since of urgency greatly lacking in this entire organization. It will show this team and its fans that they have and incredibly bad decision maker in a very important position and that this kind of irresponsibility will not be tolerated.

Yes, it would mean that Bucky Dent would get the interim tag. But so what? It also gives Krivsky the rest of the season to start figuring out who he can get in here that will turn this team around. The longer he waits to fire Narron, the longer it will take for him to find a replacement.

Two fears; if Krivsky does not fire Narron now he is giving zero hope for this franchise. And if Dent does in fact take over as the interim manager and they eventually take the interim tag away from him and proclaim him as the new manager, we are screwed.

Fire Narron now and start looking for a new manager tomorrow.

[GOREDSGO32]

You can look for a manager after the year. Firing Narron now doesn't have any benefits - all the stuff you listed doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

[redsrbetter]

You think we can still contend this year?

[CincyRedsFan30]

I'm just not seeing that burning desire to win...at all.

I would rather anyone manage the team for the rest of the year than Narron...just based on the message it would send alone.

Let Dent interim and then try to find a real manager (paging Davey Johnson) at the end of the year. Just don't buy into any wins under Dent.

He has shown me nothing to indicate he cares even slightly whether the team wins or loses. I was expecting a massive payroll bump and the desire to overpay a lot for the absolutely best players available. I also expected him to show less patience with someone like Narron(clearly in way over his head).

I see no signs of a burning desire to win or any hope of championship baseball returning to Cincinnati soon.

I think he is both a liar AND clueless to be honest. I don't think he was ever as interested as he made it seem in winning and I think he DOES think Narron and Krivsky both do things the "right way."

It's all pretty scary to me.

[Slyder]

Sorry this is a long one, sry just kept finding more to say.

I'm not ready to throw out the whole bunch yet. Rome wasn't built in a day, after years of mismanagement, by a lot of people, we were left without much of a farm. O'Brien did do a little bit to help that but his management of money on the MLB club left a lot to be desired and his trading ideas were laughable at best.

Krivs and Cast have been on the job just over a year, last year for whatever reason (were that good or sum being greater than the whole) put us into a ackward position. Not having a lot of tradable parts without ripping into the 25 man roster (hence such stars as Sun Who? Kim, Ryan Franklin, Joe Mays, and Esteban Yan) rather than more fruitful options. Finally find something that they hope can help and one is damaged goods. Take out the trade and I think that the record (given the fact they didnt have ANY chance at FA) is a pretty good one.

Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo. Bronson was our 1b with Harang in the rotation last year, Wily Mo is still waiting on a chance to play everyday.

Signing Scott Hatteberg, took a gamble on a 1b and it paid off well for the reds. Hatteberg performed well for us in a platoon role.

David Ross came over to fill in for then injured LaRue and never gives up the job. Struggled with the bat this year but still has been a better handler with this pitching staff than a lot would be. Room for improvement? Sure but right now even with his struggles with the bat he's still much better than the other options at this point.

Claimed Jon Coutlangous from SF. Been good at times, been bad at others. He's still young and could be a very good short man for a while.

Acq Brandon Phillips.

Thats a lot of good for me to give up all hope on the franchise already. Could they fire Narron and maybe get a bump? Ya, but Girardi isn't going to come here and I doubt that anyone with a resume will knowing that more "enticing" jobs could become open at the end of the year. I want Narron gone just so he doesn't try and ride the pitchers to save his job and shorten their effective careers due to the overuse.

[CincyRedsFan30]

I get a little tired of hearing some say good managers won't come here because the job isn't "enticing."

How do any bad teams ever turn good once they get good owners and leaders if that were the case?

Marge didn't have trouble hiring Lou before the '90 season.

The franchise has history on its side. They just need an owner with the willingness and talent to convince a real manager to come work under his vision.

I'm just not sure if Castellini's that guy after hoping he was when I first saw him.

[Slyder]

I get a little tired of hearing some say good managers won't come here because the job isn't "enticing."

How do any bad teams ever turn good once they get good owners and leaders if that were the case?

Marge didn't have trouble hiring Lou before the '90 season.

The franchise has history on its side. They just need an owner with the willingness and talent to convince a real manager to come work under his vision.

I'm just not sure if Castellini's that guy after hoping he was when I first saw him.

Im just saying most guys with a resume most likely wont take the job midseason because you can usually count on 4-5 jobs being open at the end of the year. Especially this year since it is possible the Yankees job COULD be open. Most guys will probably wait til the offseason and see what does come open for them. I'm not saying the Reds job wont be enticing then but right now why tie yourself to a team already trailing and possibly going to be big time salers at the deadline?

[CincyRedsFan30]

That's why I said Dent should take over and then be kicked to the curb entirely at the end of the season, along with the rest of Narron's coaching staff (excluding maybe Hatcher).

[Mario-Rijo]

CRF30 I do agree that Narron should be gone yesterday, no doubt about it. Before he does harm to young players either physically (overworked), emotionally, mentally or from a technique standpoint.


However BC never promised to turn it around immediately and to think that he could might be a bit naive. I mean other than spending lots of cold hard cash, what did he have to work with? The minors except for a handful of guys was pretty barren and the major league club had few chips to work with that anyone would have wanted to let go of right away.

And other than a half a dozen or so teams who spends the kind of $$$ you are talking about? And who would you have spent those $$$'s on that would have likely came here?