Theo to Chicago Cubs

[Trendy Bastard]

Which is sad. Who would have thought that business' would stop possible promotions?

[DMBZeppelin]

The tigers and marlins won't even let there Assistant GMs interview... The era of getting something for free is over... It's not just us...

Blocking interviews is not the same at all, and has always happened. Red Sox weren't in a situation where they had something they could take off the table. Theo couldn't come back to work. So the guy who worst case scenario sits out a year and comes to Chicago. The Cubs are supposed to hand over their best players to the Red Sox? I just don't get why you seem so upset with everything.

- Theo is the President. You have a problem with his title, and think the Cubs are covering up their true intentions.
- Hoyer is the GM. You have a problem with his title, and think the Cubs are covering up their true intentions.
- Red Sox are getting compensation. You have a problem about not getting top prospects as compensation.
- You tell us details you think you read on a trade rumors website about a deal that never happened, and complain that should be precedent for Theo compensation.

Also if teams are getting compensation now, which you assume based on blocked interviews, do you really think teams will give up top prospects with regularity?

[cjkalt]

Blocking interviews is not the same at all, and has always happened. Red Sox weren't in a situation where they had something they could take off the table. Theo couldn't come back to work. So the guy who worst case scenario sits out a year and comes to Chicago. The Cubs are supposed to hand over their best players to the Red Sox? I just don't get why you seem so upset with everything.

- Theo is the President. You have a problem with his title, and think the Cubs are covering up their true intentions.
- Hoyer is the GM. You have a problem with his title, and think the Cubs are covering up their true intentions.
- Red Sox are getting compensation. You have a problem about not getting top prospects as compensation.
- You tell us details you think you read on a trade rumors website about a deal that never happened, and complain that should be precedent for Theo compensation.

Also if teams are getting compensation now, which you assume based on blocked interviews, do you really think teams will give up top prospects with regularity?

why not? He was working 14 hr days before last friday... so definitely not true at all... this assumption is why the Cubs dug in tight but it just wasn't/isn't true, he could have easily signed an extension

I don't have a problem with the title... but its job responsibilities will be a lot of what a GM does... And Hoyer will be reporting to Theo... again the titles don't matter its the idea that you guys are taking the Boston system and applying it... I just think its very greedy for you to think you shouldn't pay a real price for that

You don't know we aren't getting top prospects yet... it isn't over yet...

Link: Kevin Youkilis Rumors: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
Why it took me 15 seconds to find and you guys couldn't is laughable... also would like you to retract your statement attacking my reference of this piece

There isn't precedent yet for AGM's to net compensation so they don't wanna lose them for free... We will be getting a top prospect in this deal... If its McNutt thats fine... but we are getting one of the big 3 in the system at least...

[Trendy Bastard]

Did you even read the article that was being linked?

the Oakland Athletics were negotiating a compensation agreement that likely would have netted then-Double-A third baseman Kevin Youkilis

That's all that was said. And if I remember correctly, Youkilis wasn't even that highly touted back when this compensation deal would have happened. There was no other mention of more prospects. Plus, just because it was believed that Youk was a part of the compensation, doesn't mean that he actually was. This did come from Boston media. I've heard names from Starlin Castro to Matt Szczur, all of which are asinine.

he could have easily signed an extension

Facepalm.

but we are getting one of the big 3 in the system at least...

I can't wait until the compensation deal is completed and none of Brett Jackson, Trey McNutt, and Matt Szczur (I assume those are the "big 3" you mentioned) are involved. And then I can't wait for you to claim the two mid level prospects that you do get, are some kind of gods, because the Boston media will say they are to try and save face.

[DMBZeppelin]

why not? He was working 14 hr days before last friday... so definitely not true at all... this assumption is why the Cubs dug in tight but it just wasn't/isn't true, he could have easily signed an extension

You do realize what he was doing there? Cubs stuff. The Hoyer deal was done before Theo got the Cubs job. Hoyer got the offer from Epstein. It's not an assumption. EVERYONE on both sides said he couldn't come back to Boston. They had already promoted Cherington. Even Buster Onley said he wouldn't be back and they wouldn't pay him $7 mil. I just can't believe after everything that occurred you thought him coming back was ever an option. They tried to extend Theo before they let him interview. Theo shot them down. Why are you the only one who thinks Theo signing an extension was possible? If only Henry had talked to you after Theo told him he wouldn't be back after next year. He might still be with the Sox.

I just think its very greedy for you to think you shouldn't pay
a real price for that

A real price? Cubs were willing to offer a fair price. Why do you think trading away the farm system is "real".

You don't know we aren't getting top prospects yet... it isn't over yet...

Only way you do is if Theo doesn't like the Cubs top prospects.

Why it took me 15 seconds to find and you guys couldn't is laughable... also would like you to retract your statement attacking my reference of this piece

Retract what? Lets revisit:

This is what you claimed

We we're giving up Youk and 3 top flight specs for beane why isn't Theo worth 2?

I countered with a piece from WEEI the Red Sox flagship station:

BUT WHAT KIND OF COMPENSATION?

In both Moneyball (the Michael Lewis bestseller about the A’s under Beane) and Feeding the Monster (Seth Mnookin’s tome about the Red Sox’ construction of a champion), the Sox and A’s -- with Beane negotiating for the Sox, and Oakland Assistant GM Paul DePodesta in charge of negotiations for the A’s -- are said to have worked out a deal to send Beane to Boston for Kevin Youkilis.

In point of fact, noted one person familiar with the talks, while the A’s and Sox discussed different trade possibilities, with Youkilis being in the conversation, there never was a final deal in place by the time that Beane’s change of heart scuttled the deal.

Still, that connection of Beane to Youkilis (at the time, a promising yet undervalued third base prospect whose tremendous plate discipline had yielded high OBPs but no real power) serves as the closest thing to a precedent in determining the trade value of a GM.

So to counter the Red Sox flagship station you send me to the rumor page. It list a Boston Herald article that discusses compensation. Which goes on to.... backup the WEEI article and confirm that you're wrong? Glad it only took you 15 seconds to do it though.

What price should the Cubs pay for poaching Theo Epstein?

In 2002, before Billy Beane changed his mind and backed away from the chance to take over as GM of the Red Sox, the Oakland Athletics were negotiating a compensation agreement that likely would have netted then-Double-A third baseman Kevin Youkilis.

There isn't precedent yet for AGM's to net compensation so they don't wanna lose them for free... We will be getting a top prospect in this deal... If its McNutt thats fine... but we are getting one of the big 3 in the system at least...

At least? You may have bigger compensation demands than the Red Sox. If you are talking upside alone McNutt isn't a top 3 prospect. He's rated higher than Vitters only because he hasn't developed. He's still young and a new minor league philosophy may help him learn to take walks. As Hendry didn't believe in walks (i'm not kidding about that). All media reports have said there's zero chance you get Szczur or B. Jackson. Maybe that changes with Theo involved. Since he doesn't know the system well. I'm going to assume he continues the Cubs stance that Castro, Garza, Jackson, and Szczur are all untouchable. Unless Selig himself does a solid for the Sox I wouldn't get your hopes up.

[realmofotalk]

And if I remember correctly, Youkilis wasn't even that highly touted back when this compensation deal would have happened. There was no other mention of more prospects. Plus, just because it was believed that Youk was a part of the compensation, doesn't mean that he actually was. This did come from Boston media.

Did you not read the excerpt of the article that DMB just posted? Its source for the details of the compensation deal was the book Moneyball, so it's not something the Boston media made up itself. Also, Youkilis not being highly touted from across the league actually worked in the A's favor: he was undervalued. Only problem was the Red Sox (thanks to Theo's influence) didn't budge whenever Beane tried to get Youkilis from them in the past.

The Red Sox appeared willing to give up Yuk.

Yes, because Beane was acting as the Red Sox GM and DePo demanded Youkilis.

[Saber]

We're getting off track from the real question: What compensation should the Cubs pay for the Red Sox to hire Billy Beane as their GM?

[cjkalt]

Farewell, Red Sox Nation - The Boston Globe

Guess I gotta buy what your saying about 2012... but I also think he woulda stayed with the Sox in a different role after the season...

I don't think the Sox ever asked for Vitters... he might be better than Jackson or McNutt but he wouldn't have a place on Boston...

I still think the Red Sox will get a top prospect or 2, Prolly McNutt + something... its fair and prevents the commish from doing anything... but I guess time will tell

[HollywoodLeo]

This sense of entitlement attitude is why a lot of people hate the Yankees and the Red Sox.

The Red Sox are not inherently owed a top prospect or two. If the Cubs agree that they're willing to give that up for Theo then so be it, but the Red Sox are not entitled to it by some sheer principle like you're making it out to be.

[DMBZeppelin]

but I also think he woulda stayed with the Sox in a different role after the season...

In what role? He wasn't going to take a demotion. There was no way to get a promotion without firing Larry. That wasn't going to happen.

I still think the Red Sox will get a top prospect or 2, Prolly McNutt + something... its fair and prevents the commish from doing anything... but I guess time will tell

The commish will only do something if they don't agree on compensation. He doesn't care what the Red Sox get if both teams agree on it. The Red Sox might get two prospects, but they're not getting two top prospects. I don't see how you deem it as fair. You constantly reference the Beane situation. I twas for one player who wasn't viewed as a top prospect by Boston. You want two guys who might be in Wrigley next year.

[Tobywan]

Now that Theo is in place and Cherington will be announced formally later all parties could work out a very nice compensation. Theo has a history of giving as good as he gets and he might just throw his protégé a bone to get him started.

[Trendy Bastard]

McNutt plus something. Keep dreaming, CJ.

[Providence A's]

Yay. Now we can STFU about the Red Sox. Yay!

[Saber]

Anyone who thinks the Red Sox won't take this guy or that guy because "he wouldn't have a place in Boston" doesn't know how prospects work.

[cjkalt]

Anyone who thinks the Red Sox won't take this guy or that guy because "he wouldn't have a place in Boston" doesn't know how prospects work.

When the guy is MLB ready and you don't have a spot on the field for him then yea... you prolly go another direction...