2014-2015 NBA Ramblings

[Mach]

well paying him a ton of money will certainly help his effort level.

[Hammer]

i doubt he'll turn into a jamarcus russell by signing ANOTHER max contract... its not like hes never been paid the max in the league before. he'll still be a top 3 scorer in the league, and he'll still put up his normal stat line... 45/38/85, 7+ rpg, 2.5+apg, 1 spg, >1 bpg. his effort [on the offensive end, and on the glass] and his work ethic have never been questioned. its just a matter of whether you can win a title with him. hes definitely a max guy that needs a good supporting defensive cast around him. but lets be realistic, theres not a player in the league outside of lebron, that could drag a mediocre all around team to the finals.

[Mach]

i doubt he'll turn into a jamarcus russell by signing ANOTHER max contract... its not like hes never been paid the max in the league before. he'll still be a top 3 scorer in the league, and he'll still put up his normal stat line... 45/38/85, 7+ rpg, 2.5+apg, 1 spg, >1 bpg. his effort [on the offensive end, and on the glass] and his work ethic have never been questioned. its just a matter of whether you can win a title with him. hes definitely a max guy that needs a good supporting defensive cast around him. but lets be realistic, theres not a player in the league outside of lebron, that could drag a mediocre all around team to the finals.

I question his defencive effort for sure. I'm not saying he's going to be a slug, but, he's just so...not a guy you can build a team around. I guess in a situation where he's the only shooter and the others are all D types it'd work, but he's not someone who elevates his teammates in the least

[Hammer]

whoo, i dragged a real reply out of you. and i agree with everything you stated. this was an argument a couple years back, when guys like andre iguodala was getting paid max money. could you win a championship with iguodala being your max guy? absolutely not. do i think you can win a championship with melo as your max guy? mehhhhh... but i think youre in an infinitely better position than you are with a guy like iggy. i think he gets a bit of bad rap... realistically, was any team he was ever on considered to be a championship contender around him? and even those denver teams after they dumped him, and got "so much deeper". they never did shit either. we know melo is one of the 3 best scorers in the game, hes a horse in the low post, hes a legit 3 and a legit 4. and hes not that fond of defense... back on a knicks team [or soon will be], that has a half a guy on the roster thats willing to play defense, and i question if he'll ever be the player he was before the acl injury [that being shumpert, obviously]. and he'll get a bad rap again this year... after being surrounded with calderon, amare and bargnani... who are all downright AWFUL on the defensive end. early and hardaway, who dont legitimately know how to play defense at the nba level yet. shumpert, whos a shell of what he was. and a bunch of question marks.

that being said, he is what he is, and i doubt he'll ever be in a position to win a championship, without being the wingman to a bron or a duncan... but realistically, defense is one of those things that can be turned on. its not a you have it or you dont type thing... its all about an effort and a commitment. will he ever get it? probably not. but since im probably gonna have him another 5 years, i have to talk myself into the fact that he can be a number 1 guy on a championship team, if you can put a pau gasol and a tim hardaway jr around him.

... that last sentence even made me laugh.

[Mach]

I think the way you compared Melo and AI2 is pretty apt. Melo's on that borderline for me. I think he could bring a title as "the guy" if you surround him with enough depth and the right depth. They have to be one hell of a supporting cast to do what he doesn't or can't. Could Phil build that around him, with him on a max? Perhaps. D and pass types aren't nearly as costly as points are, and Phil's definitely a guy I'd trust to construct a roster more or less. He won't make up for a team's weaknesses or bring everyone's game up, but he can execute what he does amongst the best and what he does is the most vital attribute in the game. I don't think he's ever failed, those teams as you mentioned were never legit, but he's got to be in situations where things fit a bit better. If he's gonna be the shooter, the scorer, he's gotta consistently carry teams on his back when it gets to crunch time, and it's never a certainty. If he'd defer a bit to a #2 then he wouldn't have to carry all the load and I'm sure the team would be better off for it.

Although, thinking about it, has he ever had a great #2? Amare was a fucking disaster before he ever put on a uniform, and everyone knew it save the fucking "brain"trust.

[Kingdom]

Amare was doing fine until his knee problems cropped up again and then they acquired Melo.

[Mach]

Aye, but he was a walking injury before he came here. You don't pay walking injuries that type of coin.

[Kingdom]

Unless you're New York.

[Hammer]

Amare was doing fine until his knee problems cropped up again and then they acquired Melo.

and d'antoni playing him approximately 63 minutes a night wasn't helping. but thats another case of not having anything else on the roster, and d'antoni trying to keep his job. mindblowingly he got another one after that anyway...

"If he's gonna be the shooter, the scorer, he's gotta consistently carry teams on his back when it gets to crunch time, and it's never a certainty. If he'd defer a bit to a #2 then he wouldn't have to carry all the load and I'm sure the team would be better off for it."

thus another problem, deferring to jr smith. when jr is on, hes an electric scorer. when jr is jr however... and if ever theres a guy in the league, that i could believe in 10 years has dock ellis type stories "knocked down 10 3's high on mescaline and mushrooms", its jr. and that entire statement is only partially a joke.

[Hammer]

Aye, but he was a walking injury before he came here. You don't pay walking injuries that type of coin.

without insurance no less!

[Hammer]

raptors traded novak and a 2nd round to the jazz for diante garrett. because utah didnt acquire enough honkeys in the draft, so they had to get their quota soon.

the raps also re-signed pat patterson, 3 years, 18 mil.

[Kingdom]

and d'antoni playing him approximately 63 minutes a night wasn't helping. but thats another case of not having anything else on the roster, and d'antoni trying to keep his job. mindblowingly he got another one after that anyway...

He had it perfect in Phoenix. Then he effectively ruined two historic franchises for a bit. I bet there's a bounty in LA on his head (Pau Gasol orchestrating it )

[LJMets1989]

oh by the way, the summer league starts on saturday. our first look at the rookies playing against other rookies and d-leaguers, but i still have no life and will probably watch and tape a bunch of games.

Let me know how Brandon Triche looks. I know he'll never make the team, but was a big fan of his at Syracuse, and he's a good dude.

[LJMets1989]

I can't stand the concept (and I know you guys here were NOT espousing it) that Melo can't be THE guy on a title contender. Give him a team who'll play D and a real point guard and we'll find out. But he's one of the 3-5 best offensive players in the game, his passing -- if he had anyone he trusted to put up a decent shot now and again -- is at least passable and he's a pretty darn good rebounder. If a guy with that skill set can't be your "THE" guy, then you may as well give up.

[Kingdom]

Which he's not going to have any of that if he's a Knick or Laker.