President Barack Obama

[love_that_reefer]

Key word... Saying, plus the media is the last group I would turn to for fair economic news. Yes its bad but they ignored what caused this and ignored who allowed it to happen. And had such a blatent double standard this election that no one can argue they know what they are talking about.

Difference being in 1976 enough of the south bought that Carter was "one of them", in 1980 Reagan came along, had the Dems had ANYONE with half a brain and wasnt a far leftist they probably would have beat Bush in 04. But the favorites were... John Flip Flop Kerry, John Edwards, and Howard Dean.

Its not the media saying this, its financial experts!! What caused this?? Who allowed it to happen?? Bush is not at fault?? Double standard?? Please explain yourself!!

Reagan ran the better campaign and thus he won. Its not rocket science! You're right about 2004. Kerry, Edwards and Dean was head and shoulders smarter than Bush but they didn;t have any balls to fight back against the Rove attack machine.

[Slyder]

Slyder, Biden's numbers were better than Palin's in every major poll. He wasn't AWOL from the campaign trial at all either. Why did Palin stop talking to the press in the weeks leading up the Tuesday?? The Congress' numbers suck because Bush shot down every majpr bill put forth which leads to nothing changing for the better. The only reason Obama won was because he was the better candidate! Obama was the only candidate talking about real change. the Bush/McCain connection also helped but do not deny who the ran the better campaign. America has spoken!

Where was Biden the last oh couple months? Palin was giving speeches everywhere from PA, to Ohio, to Missouri, to Florida, you name it she hit the campaign trail. Biden was no where because they were scared that one of his gaffs might actually make the news.

To the Palin: Care to compare the coverage? They were out to destroy her. She gets named to VP and 30 lawyers invade Alaska looking for ANYTHING. Why didnt Obama who has "comparable" experience get the same fine tooth comb treatment...

And Bush and the Republicans tried to change Fannie and Freddie 14 times... Democrats screamed bloody murder and tried to commit political murder on the bureaucrat who said "I cant look the other way any more".

I do not argue that Obama ran the better campaign but with everything going against McCain it was a lot closer than it probably should have been. The only thing that might have tilted stuff is McCain voted no on the bailout (that "had to be done then") and proposed his 300 mil dollar plan in place of. Obama made a lot of promises it shall be interesting to see how long of a honey moon he gets.

[love_that_reefer]

I am done with this!! People who still insist on trying to defend Bush after eight years of complete incompetence have no more room in my life. Defending the indefensible is just a huge waste of time and just flat out stupid. Bush had eight years to make his mark and he did it in the worst way possible. Blunder after blunder resulting in deaths and debt has made Bush one of the worst presidents and the history books will show it. Eight years of Bush is far worse than anything Carter, Hoover and Ford did (even though Hoover is just about as low as you can get). Bush has tow months left and hopefully he uses that time to make sure Obama has as smooth of a transition as possible. America needs new leadership more now than ever and talking about Bush's ****ups helps nothing!! Hopefully Obama and future presidents look at Bush's ****ups and learn from them. A new America starts in Jan. '09 and I for one cannot wait!! It is up to us to keep his feet to fire and ensure us that we are getting the most form our government.

[love_that_reefer]

Where was Biden the last oh couple months? Palin was giving speeches everywhere from PA, to Ohio, to Missouri, to Florida, you name it she hit the campaign trail. Biden was no where because they were scared that one of his gaffs might actually make the news.

To the Palin: Care to compare the coverage? They were out to destroy her. She gets named to VP and 30 lawyers invade Alaska looking for ANYTHING. Why didnt Obama who has "comparable" experience get the same fine tooth comb treatment...

And Bush and the Republicans tried to change Fannie and Freddie 14 times... Democrats screamed bloody murder and tried to commit political murder on the bureaucrat who said "I cant look the other way any more".

I do not argue that Obama ran the better campaign but with everything going against McCain it was a lot closer than it probably should have been. The only thing that might have tilted stuff is McCain voted no on the bailout (that "had to be done then") and proposed his 300 mil dollar plan in place of. Obama made a lot of promises it shall be interesting to see how long of a honey moon he gets.

Biden was on the trail every day that Obama was. Biden was giving speeches just as much as Palin!! Not my fault you didn't care to get involved. Not Biden's fault Palin was a more "sexy" news story either. He was out there every but as much as Palin. How do I know? I paid attention. Palin wa forbidden to give any interviews leading into the election.

To Palin: Are you ****ing high?? You have ot be if you expcet me to believe that bullshit!! Obama got far worse treatment than Palin. The media hounded Obama for almost two years!! You have to be high not to realize that!! The meida didn;t go after Palin, they just didn't know anything about her!! She got the same exact treatment Obama did. Only difference is that they had less time to do it in. Obama was under the media's every eye for two years. You cannot be serious!! Palin ****ed herself over, not the media. She was already under investigation before being named to the VP so you are wrong again!! Palin was an awful choice and it cost McCain. Actually McCain ****ed himself over by not being the same McCain in 2000.

You are right about the Democrats on Fannie Mae and others but the Republican ran Congress had its hand in it too. That's where governement as a whole let us down!! Maybe Bush should have done a better job after 9/11 to hel our economy rather than telling everyone to go out and spend or else the terrorist win.

[love_that_reefer]

[Slyder]

Its not the media saying this, its financial experts!! What caused this?? Who allowed it to happen?? Bush is not at fault?? Double standard?? Please explain yourself!!

Lets start with some Congressional history....

Democrat Barney Frank: His Boyfriend gets caught running a prostitution ring in his basement "with out Barney's knowing" what happens to Barney? Hes still in Congress.

Republican Mark Foley: Sends some explicit ims and he gets railroaded.

Trent Lott says at Strom Thurmond's 100th b-day: Maybe America would be better if he had won in 1948... They proceed to sling any arrow they can at him and demand he resign...

Countless Dems: Bad taste jokes ranging from Indian's at the gas station to other poor taste jokes... Apologize and forgotten.

Any Republican tied to Abramoff: Railed upon until defeated, in jail, or resign.

William Jefferson Rep for the New Orleans district caught with $700,000 of (literal) cold hard cash bribes in his freezer: How many people heard this even happen?

Obama's Pastor: Rev. Wright. I hate to sound racial but what sort of chaos do you think the news media would make if some white guy came out and said (the white power equivilant) half of what Rev. Wright did? The guy wouldn't last another month at ANY church as soon as it comes to pass.

Media brings up the wardrobe of Palin... Never mentioned that Clinton had 17 pantsuits waiting for her at the convention or that its been pretty much scientifically proven that appearances is a lot more important for women than men so they HAD to.

Or when did you ever hear anyone ask a guy "how are you going to balance being a father and President?"

Clinton bombs Kosovo: Oh its to prevent murder and human rights.... Iraq same case could be made among more... Bush: "Saddam tried to kill my daddy".

To your second point: Bush was at fault that he just sighed and allowed it to continue. Theres a lot of things he did that had he put even a remote effort toward that he might not be in this hole.

Some links: (Its late and I dont feel like typing it all out)
Fannie Mae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Freddie Mac - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thats a start. Also has a lot of links to its info. thats why I like Wikipedia for a central reference point (just have to be a bit careful).

[ljshorty89]

McCain was cleared of any wrongdoing in that.
McCain was cleared by the Senate Ethics Committee of acting improperly or violating any law or Senate rule, but was mildly rebuked for exercising "poor judgment." Reference to Arizona Republic and NY Times articles quoted on his wikipedia.

I did not say that McCain did any wrong. I simply said that if Dave wanted to point out stupid insignificant people that the candidates were involved with, then there are just as many negative people who have been around McCain. To be completely honest, none of that bullshit meant anything to me. I don't care about Keading, Jeremiah Wright, or any of them, I care about the changes that the president elect will make to our economy, how quickly he will get us out of war, and how he will protect us. I trust Obama to do just that.

What did he (McCain) have to lose? This election should have NEVER been in doubt. McCain had 1 card to play to even try as a hail mary and that was placate to the base. Anyone else and it would have been "oh well another boring white guy". He had to try and do something outside the box. If Biden was such a better pick why was he AWOL so long from the campaign trail?

Umm, he had an election to lose. Yeah, the odds weren't great because of what Bush had done, but he was still there. The problem was that he chose a VP who mobilized the conservatives(WHO WERE ALREADY GONNA VOTE FOR HIM), and alienated the undecided moderates(WHO HE NEEDED SUPPORT FROM). It was a dumb decision, and according to many political analysts, it was one of the biggest reasons he lost.

Biden's a boring speaker

Ok? Palin bores me. All she does is talk like a stupid 16 year old girl from Long Island. She sounds like she was raised in the suburbs on Abercrombie and Fitch. As Dave would say, she came across as "wet behind the ears, and with similac still on her breath".

While McCain did have some fights with Republicans, Obama agreed with Speaker Pelosi and Sen Leader Harry Reid 100% of the time and Congress' approval rating makes Bush look like Clinton.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't 100%, because that's nearly impossible. However, I do admit that Obama stayed along party lines very often. The thing is, it was Bush's policies that brought us into one of the most deadly wars we have ever been a part of, as well as the worst shape our economy has been in since the Great Depression. Therefore, McCain's constant siding with Bush scared me away, as apparently it did many other people.

The only reason Obama won was this was another Anti-Republican/establishment (on the dem side) year most every other election he probably wouldnt have gotten past the primary. The Dems have control of everything now and NONE] of the excuses. Time will tell if the Republican party can get going again after being left in (arguably) worse shape by Bush than even Hoover in 32.

I don't know about that. He beat out Hilary in the primary, and she was actually fairly popular. I mean, she beat him out in the AFRICAN AMERICAN vote early on. It was his speeches, his ideas, and his promises that turned things around and won him this election, not JUST the fact that the Republicans have completely screwed up the country.

[love_that_reefer]

This is why this country willl never get anywhere. When Bush ****ed up, they just recited other instances where Clinton ****ed up and that somehow made it OK. It ****ing ridiculous and wrong. If one party ****s up, they just point out where someone else of the other party ****ed up!! Its all ****ing wrong!!! Doesn't matter what party did it!! No one takes repsonsibility anymore!! Just one of the many reasons America will never progress through its government because of ass backwards thinking like this.

And to nitpick a little, Rev. Wright if white would have not gotten hardly the attention he did. Plus he's a pastor and not an elected official so who cares what he has to say? Plus he's not a reverend anymore.

Or when did you ever hear anyone ask a guy "how are you going to balance being a father and President?"

Men and women are not the same and never will have the same standard nor should they. Women are the care givers and men are the providers and that's the way our thinking will be forever. Men and women are simply too different. Just living in the free world.

I love you Slyder.

[Slyder]

To Palin: Are you ****ing high?? You have ot be if you expcet me to believe that bullshit!! Obama got far worse treatment than Palin. The media hounded Obama for almost two years!! You have to be high not to realize that!! The meida didn;t go after Palin, they just didn't know anything about her!! She got the same exact treatment Obama did. Only difference is that they had less time to do it in. Obama was under the media's every eye for two years. You cannot be serious!! Palin ****ed herself over, not the media. She was already under investigation before being named to the VP so you are wrong again!! Palin was an awful choice and it cost McCain. Actually McCain ****ed himself over by not being the same McCain in 2000.

Then how do you explain the treatment of Joe the Plumber by Ohio Democrats... Geez Id be fine if they went after Palin, McCain, Biden, and Obama like they did that private citizen.

Care to provide links of where the media went on a witch hunt at Obama? They feed his campaign with the coverage not impeed it. She was under investigation because the guy was an insubbordant sob part of the alaska gob network.

There was a study done and the most striking numbers I think came for MSNBC.

14% of Obama coverage was "negative".
70% of McCain coverage was "negative".
according to the Pew Media Research Group.

Pew: McCain Gets Far More Negative Coverage From Media | NewsBusters.org

[love_that_reefer]

The treatment of Joe the Plumber was wrong on all accounts!! They ripped him a new one and it was mostly the medias doing. McCain should have never made his a side show and the media shouldn;t have gone through his tax records. It was a disgrace all arounnd.

I don't have to give links for a witch hunt on Obama!! He was out on the campaign trail for two ****ing years man and went through the toughest primary process in our lifetime!! He was brought through the mud the entire time! Where were you?? They talked Rev. Wright for so wrong people stopped caring but it was stupid and didn't matter. From Bill Ayers, to Obama's elite comments, to Rev. Wright, to being a mUslim, and just about everything else under the sun. Obama definitely got no free pass the media in the two years he was under the nation's eye. The media new nothing of Palin and had to do a crash course in order to get any ino on her. Not a witch hunt dude! That's the difference in ideology. One person's "witch hunt" is another person basic getting to know who someone is. If Palin was on the trail for two years like Obama, the treatment would have been equal as it was the whole time.

Numbers also said McCain ran a far more negative campaign than Obama. What's your point? If you watched Fox News, Obama got his ass reamed everyday. If you watched MSNBC, McCain was the target.

[Slyder]

This is why this country willl never get anywhere. When Bush ****ed up, they just recited other instances where Clinton ****ed up and that somehow made it OK. It ****ing ridiculous and wrong. If one party ****s up, they just point out where someone else of the other party ****ed up!! Its all ****ing wrong!!! Doesn't matter what party did it!! No one takes repsonsibility anymore!! Just one of the many reasons America will never progress through its government because of ass backwards thinking like this.

Maybe difference in what I meant by "double standard" I just mean as a whole I wish the whole lot of them got the same sort of treatment. If youre not going to go after one then dont go after the other or if youre going to be a pitbull be a pitbull against both.

And to nitpick a little, Rev. Wright if white would have not gotten hardly the attention he did. Plus he's a pastor and not an elected official so who cares what he has to say? Plus he's not a reverend anymore.

If that had been McCain's pastor, youre telling me Jessie Jackson and the usual suspects wouldnt have been out there raising holy heck and the media beating the story like a dead mule? Okay we'll just have to agree to disagree about what coverage it would have gotten.

Men and women are not the same and never will have the same standard nor should they. Women are the care givers and men are the providers and that's the way our thinking will be forever. Men and women are simply too different. Just living in the free world.

I love you Slyder.

I thought that the women were fighting for equal rights and busting through the glass ceiling and all that. Theres many stay at home dads any more while the mom works. Its not like the kids would have stayed in Alaska while she was veep had McCain pulled the upset.

[love_that_reefer]

Maybe difference in what I meant by "double standard" I just mean as a whole I wish the whole lot of them got the same sort of treatment. If youre not going to go after one then dont go after the other or if youre going to be a pitbull be a pitbull against both.

There is no double standard, that's the standard!! Any time a Dem. ****s up, the Rep. try and lump one Dem with all Dem. It goes both ways!! If a Rep. ****s up, they recite when a Dem. ****ed up and somehow that makes it OK. It goes both ways!!! This is why we never make change or progress as a nation!

If that had been McCain's pastor, youre telling me Jessie Jackson and the usual suspects wouldnt have been out there raising holy heck and the media beating the story like a dead mule? Okay we'll just have to agree to disagree about what coverage it would have gotten.

Of course Jessie Jackson would have been all over it but so were the Sean Hannity's and Rush Limbaughs. They were crying Rev. Wright everyday for the past year!! The media DID beat the Rev. Wright issue like a dead mule! Ultimately, people decided what this man had to say had zero to do with the elections. McCain had pastors saying that homosexuals caused Hurricane Kutrina and they were white! They were hardly blips in the news and that's good. Nothing any of these men had to sya mattered!

I thought that the women were fighting for equal rights and busting through the glass ceiling and all that. Theres many stay at home dads any more while the mom works. Its not like the kids would have stayed in Alaska while she was veep had McCain pulled the upset.

They are fighting but both you and I live in the real world and know it isn;t true nor should it. Women and men are different. Nothing wrong with that. It was a dumb question to make but women are from Venus and men are from Mars. No one is going to ask a man if he can be a father and a president and you know that. I know that. Where's the problem?

[Slyder]

Umm, he had an election to lose. Yeah, the odds weren't great because of what Bush had done, but he was still there. The problem was that he chose a VP who mobilized the conservatives(WHO WERE ALREADY GONNA VOTE FOR HIM), and alienated the undecided moderates(WHO HE NEEDED SUPPORT FROM). It was a dumb decision, and according to many political analysts, it was one of the biggest reasons he lost.

Who would you have picked as VP? Because any of the "favorites" would have gotten this sort of response.... Oh another boring white guy and not done a whole lot with the moderate/undecided (Even Romney who I supported in the primary just for full disclosure). Plus the conservatives were FAR from behind him. Many I know were planning on either voting Libertarian or sitting on their hands after 8 yrs of Bush. I don't know if that is true of a majority of them but there were a significant number that voted for McCain just because he picked Palin. The biggest reason McCain lost was the financial meltdown was pegged to Bush and McCain's inability to get his talking points straight but with everything as it was McCain probably made it as close as any of the 8 (including Romney) that ran for the nomination could have.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't 100%, because that's nearly impossible. However, I do admit that Obama stayed along party lines very often. The thing is, it was Bush's policies that brought us into one of the most deadly wars we have ever been a part of, as well as the worst shape our economy has been in since the Great Depression. Therefore, McCain's constant siding with Bush scared me away, as apparently it did many other people.

If you find one place he didnt vote with the party that be the first I have seen. Do some research and follow the money you'll see its far more than just Bush.

I don't know about that. He beat out Hilary in the primary, and she was actually fairly popular. I mean, she beat him out in the AFRICAN AMERICAN vote early on. It was his speeches, his ideas, and his promises that turned things around and won him this election, not JUST the fact that the Republicans have completely screwed up the country.

Clinton was the established candidate. He beat her in the caucus states where he could bus people in and use public voting to his advantage. Notice when it came down to private voting the majority (I dont have exact numbers) voted heavily for Clinton. He might prove me wrong but I think the novelty of his campaign played a role just as much as people in just as many who voted for him and voted for McCain.

[love_that_reefer]

If I were McCain, I would have picked Huckabee as my VP. He would have gotten the conservative base and he is a lot smarter than Palin. Once people started getting to know Palin, her numbers dropped from 90% to under 60%. She was the novelty act, not Obama. The women vote went entierly in Obama;s favor. The biggest reason Obama won is he ran the better campaign. McCain took the the old way of scare tactics and negative campaigning which cost the Republicans the House and Senate in '06. That's why he lost.

[ljshorty89]

Who would you have picked as VP? Because any of the "favorites" would have gotten this sort of response.... Oh another boring white guy and not done a whole lot with the moderate/undecided (Even Romney who I supported in the primary just for full disclosure). Plus the conservatives were FAR from behind him. Many I know were planning on either voting Libertarian or sitting on their hands after 8 yrs of Bush. I don't know if that is true of a majority of them but there were a significant number that voted for McCain just because he picked Palin. The biggest reason McCain lost was the financial meltdown was pegged to Bush and McCain's inability to get his talking points straight but with everything as it was McCain probably made it as close as any of the 8 (including Romney) that ran for the nomination could have.

McCain ran a fairly strong campaign with what he had, but the problem with Palin was that she scared away more voters than she brought in. She scared away most people with her ridiculously conservative ideals. It scared people away that she was as against abortion as she was(completely against Roe vs. Wade). It scared people that she flip flopped on her bridge to nowhere(supporting it, rejecting it when it was an embarrassment, then saying she was never for it, then keeping the money). It scared people away that she fired a sheriff over his refusal to fire her former brother in law without reason. She wanted the guy fired because of a rough divorce, and when the sheriff wouldn't fire him, he was fired instead. It scared people that she couldn't make up her mind with colleges. She attended at least 4 different colleges, and never stayed at one for more than 3 consecutive semesters, taking over 5 years to gain her bachelors. And in general it scared people that she had such a terrible interview with Katie Couric. You can tell me all day that Couric was a part of the "gotcha media", but it was not like she was hitting Palin THAT hard. I mean, "What magazines do you read, give examples?" is not that bad a question. Palin was just not ready to be thrust this far onto the national stage so quickly and so visibly, and it showed. Maybe in 4 years(or more likely 8+) she will prove that this was a "rookie mistake", but that's far from a given.

He could have chosen either Huckabee or Romney, and he would have had fewer mistakes, and a better shot at winning those states like Indiana and Virginia that ALWAYS go red, but this year went blue.