Rays stingy on Gathright's price

[love_that_reefer]

All that power resulting in the piss poor run support. No guys to knock in if they are all swinging for the fences.

I should have been more clear. Matheny had the second most out of the catcher's position. If you can go all 500 ABs without a RBI, then you need some Speed in front of you I love how you people shit on the RBI stats. Look at his BA with RISP. Then you get why i put it up there.

The point of it all is you need to balance of speed and power to be a successful offense, not power and power.

[McKain]

All that power resulting in the piss poor run support. No guys to knock in if they are all swinging for the fences.

They finished 4th in the WBC in runs. The 3 teams ahead of the US all advanced farther than the US did. "Piss poor run support" my ass.

I should have been more clear. Matheny had the second most out of the catcher's position. If you can go all 500 ABs without a RBI, then you need some Speed in front of you I love how you people shit on the RBI stats. Look at his BA with RISP. Then you get why i put it up there.

If you're getting 500 hits in 500 at-bats without RBIs, you don't need speed - you need someone who can get on-base. Speed isn't going to help anyone get on base significantly more than if they had no speed.

I will shit on RBI statistics until they matter. If you wanted to say "well he hits well when runners are in scoring position," which actually matters much much more than looking at RBI does, maybe you'll want to say that in the first place.

The point of it all is you need to balance of speed and power to be a successful offense, not power and power.

OAKLAND ATHLETICS. Why are you ignoring this point so much? They DO NOT HAVE SPEED. They are a successful offense. They were 9th in the MLB last year in runs scored wth no speed.

[love_that_reefer]

And maybe if they had some more speed in that lineup they would have done soemthing so I am going to ignore the moot point. Look at all the teams ahead of them. What did they have that Oakland didn't? Oakland has some speed but just not base stealers. This year they have more speed. Quit bringing up ONE team that is based more around their pitching than offense plus the fact they haven't won anything.

And you want to talk about the WBC, look at their run support in the games they lost. Then we will talk about their piss poor run support all day long if you'd like.

[McKain]

And maybe if they had some more speed in that lineup they would have done soemthing so I am going to ignore the moot point.

They got eliminated from the WBC as a result of bad pitching performances by a few guys. The offense was great.

Look at all the teams ahead of them. What did they have that Oakland didn't? Oakland has some speed but just not base stealers. This year they have more speed. Quit bringing up ONE team that is based more around their pitching than offense plus the fact they haven't won anything.

Boston, Texas, Cleveland, Toronto, Cincinnati. None of them had all that much speed. All of them finished ahead of the Athletics in runs scored. Hm.

And you want to talk about the WBC, look at their run support in the games they lost. Then we will talk about their piss poor run support all day long if you'd like.

7-3 loss, 2-1 loss, 8-6 loss.

Willis gives up 3 runs, Wheeler gives up 3 runs, in 5 innings. You can't fault the US here for not scoring 8 runs when they were down so fast, and no team should ever have to score 8 runs to win.

Willis gives up 5 runs, Leiter gives up 2 runs, in 3.1 innings. You can't fault the US here for not scoring 9 runs when they were down so fast, and no team should ever have to score 9 runs to win. Yet look at that, they made a game out of it.

2 games, lost by the pitching. 1 game, lost by the hitting.

[love_that_reefer]

Look at how many runners they left on base. You are not going to win this one. Yes their pitching sucked at times but the average with RISP was pathetic and shows why the USA can't win against the ALL AROUND teams like Cuba, Korea and Japan.

And yes those teams ahead of Oakland had speed just not the typical 50-60 steals a year type of guy. Boston had guys like Damon and Renteria. Rangers had Soriano, Delucci and Nix. Cleveland had Crisp, Sizemore and even Boone is light on his feet. Cincy has Freel, Lopez and Griffey can still move. Toronto had Wells, Hudson, Rios and Adams. Oakland had Kotsay and even Kendall is quick. They don't have great base stealers which I guess is your definition of speed but they have guys who can scoot and score from first on a ball in the gap.

Then you have smart baserunners like Pujols and Snow. Not fast but know how to run the bases better than most. These are a rarity.

[Saber]

Because Gathright has absolutely no ability to knock a ball out of the infield, major league pitchers won't throw him anything but strikes. No power, and now bye bye walks. He's a completely BA driven player, a number prone to massive fluctuation even in the best players. Just ask Ichiro!

Of course, if Ichiro gets a grooved fastball, he can actually drill it. Not so for Joey Gathright. Gathright is the love child of Alex Sanchez and Jason Tyner.

[love_that_reefer]

Ichiro scores runs

[McKain]

Look at how many runners they left on base. You are not going to win this one. Yes their pitching sucked at times but the average with RISP was pathetic and shows why the USA can't win against the ALL AROUND teams like Cuba, Korea and Japan.

How can you look facts right in the face and ignore them? Willis, Wheeler, and Leiter gave up 13 runs in 8.1 innings. No team is going to be overcome that, no matter how much speed they had.

And yes those teams ahead of Oakland had speed just not the typical 50-60 steals a year type of guy. Boston had guys like Damon and Renteria. Rangers had Soriano, Delucci and Nix. Cleveland had Crisp, Sizemore and even Boone is light on his feet. Cincy has Freel, Lopez and Griffey can still move. Toronto had Wells, Hudson, Rios and Adams. Oakland had Kotsay and even Kendall is quick. They don't have great base stealers which I guess is your definition of speed but they have guys who can scoot and score from first on a ball in the gap.

Any average baserunner is going to be able to score from first on a ball hit to the gap in the outfield. That is really not any sort of criteria for measuring speed. If you want to measure speed with any sort of restrictive limitations that don't give a guy credit for being an average runner, you're going to be excluding everyone from that list you gave except for Damon, Soriano, Crisp, Freel, and possibly Lopez.

[love_that_reefer]

How can you look facts right in the face and ignore them? Willis, Wheeler, and Leiter gave up 13 runs in 8.1 innings. No team is going to be overcome that, no matter how much speed they had.



Any average baserunner is going to be able to score from first on a ball hit to the gap in the outfield. That is really not any sort of criteria for measuring speed. If you want to measure speed with any sort of restrictive limitations that don't give a guy credit for being an average runner, you're going to be excluding everyone from that list you gave except for Damon, Soriano, Crisp, Freel, and possibly Lopez.

How are you not going to look at the men left on base. I agreed that the pitching sucked but not in every game. My god man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There was a reason they were 3-3 and it wasn't based solely on the pitching. Go get a tape of the Canada game. They had shitty pitching but if they hit like they were taught to and if they had some guys who could make things happen, they would have won that ballgame. Power+power=nada.

And to say the average baserunner is going to score from first is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Count the times it happens with guys like Texiera and Sheffield from first base.

[McKain]

How are you not going to look at the men left on base. I agreed that the pitching sucked but not in every game. My god man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There was a reason they were 3-3 and it wasn't based solely on the pitching. Go get a tape of the Canada game. They had shitty pitching but if they hit like they were taught to and if they had some guys who could make things happen, they would have won that ballgame. Power+power=nada.

Two of the games they lost were a direct result of pitching.

TWO OF THE GAMES.

Out of THREE LOSSES.

And to say the average baserunner is going to score from first is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Count the times it happens with guys like Texiera and Sheffield from first base.

On a double, any player who is an average runner or better will score from first. Anyone who does not is NOT AN AVERAGE RUNNER.

[love_that_reefer]

Whatever you say McKain. Like I said, watch guys like Sheff hold up at third. I forget I am arguing with a guy who thought Choi would out produce Shawn Green's numbers from 2004.

Three games they lost due to MEN LEFT ON BASE!!! They had every opportunity to overcome their piss poor pitching but fasiled to do so. Did you even watch the games against Canada and Korea? I bet my life you didn't ! In fact, I know you didn't

[Saber]

Ichiro scores runs. Joey is not Ichiro.

[McKain]

What's really amazing about that is how close Choi was to being an equal or better player to Green; in fact, had he actually gotten playing time in LA, he probably would have done just that. Of course, since he didn't get as many RBIs, you ignore that.

The men left on base argument doesn't matter, because their opposing teams both left plenty on base too. The idea of "They lost because they left so many guys on base" happens to favor both teams when the US leaves 9 on base and Canada leaves 8 on base, and Korea leaves 9 on base to the US's 11. The pitching lost them the game. It is an inarguable point. I have no honest clue why you can say otherwise then Willis got absolutely wrecked, TWICE, EARLY, and put the US in a massive hole, and then Wheeler and Leiter both helped.

[love_that_reefer]

Choi did not come close to producing more than Green and I am sorry you feel that he did. I ignore it because RBI come with productionas well as the homers. Those are production numbers which was the original argument. And for some reason I had the foresight to know Choi wouldn't get that chance. I ignore it because RBI come with production. Funny how that is.

[McKain]

What's funny is that you honestly have no clue what production is.