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San Francisco GiantsAnd just why didn't they make the playoffs???Originally Posted by CrazyEights
And just why didn't they make the playoffs???
so 1 guy is the difference? you add a reliever, and you take away a couple of starters. if they sign fuentes and don't do anything about the roation, then he might be the most underworked closer in the league. a 3 man rotation (Wainwright, Lohse, and Wellemeyer) doesn't put much fear in their rivals.
The Cards didn't make the playoffs last year for one reason and one reason only, no presence at the end of the game. No one could close games out!!! Like I have said repeatedly, the Cards can still fill out a rotation. What they can't get in a trade or on the market is the shut down closer! The Cards rotation isn't going to scare anyone just like it didn't last year but they still did a good job. Wainwright, Lohse and Wellemeyer is what you had last year. You keep acting like its either or and its not. The Cards have got to get a closer!! Brandon Lyon's and Chris Perez's is not going to get it done!!
This is all moot because the Cards have withdrawn their offer to Fuentes.
They also had Looper last year. They had 4 guys (when Wainwright was healthy), and that 5th spot was a mixed bag. It looks like our 4th and 5th guys will both be a crap shoot this year with Pineiro and Boggs. You think that rotation can get to the playoffs even with a great closer?
I don't think it matters if the Cardinals withdrew their offer to Fuentes. He has already made it clear that he wants to play for the Angels next year. Since the Cardinals have no chance at signign him, they need to move on.
They had a good rotation last year and couldn't make the playoffs. What's the difference? Like I said, they could have done both. Now they are ****ed for '09 unless the Cards make a miraculous move.
How could they have had both? You can't make a player sign with you if he wants to play for another team. Ask the Nationals, Red Sox and Angels about that.
You can sign a closer and a starter was my point. You acted like it was only one or the other. Now the Cards have done neither and have not improved a team that was good enough to make the playoffs if only they had a closer.
They can do both depending on the cost. They have about $10-15 Mil available to spend. If they were able to sign Fuentes for $11Mil, then that would leave $4Mil (at the most) for a starter. That is assuming the Cards spend on the high end, and not the low end of the $10-15Mil. Braden Looper wouldn't even sign for $4Mil. I'm not the biggest fan of Looper, and I won't be sad to see him playing for the Brewers next year. I would like to sign a replacement for him though.
The Cards had about $20 million to spend this offseason from everything I read. They could have reached for a little more too. If they signed Fuentes for even $11 million a year, they could have gone out and got a pitcher. Then they could have traded one of the OFers for another starter. Couldn't say the same for a left-handed closer. Rotation guys are easier to come by! Closer was and still the bigger need right now for the Cards. Without it, it doesn;t matter how good your rotation is as we all saw from last year!
Ok, but Fuentes doesn't want to play for the Cardinals. He wants to play for the Angels. That's why he has been waiting to see where Tex went, because he wanted to play for the Angels all along. How do you sign a player that doesn't want to play for you?
They sat on the ****ing fence all offseason!! Fuentes could have been had back in July and the Cards balked at that too. When it looked like the Angels were not going to sign Teixeira, Fuentes and his agents saw an opportunity and expressed interest. Who wouldn't want to play in LA for more money? Cards dropped the ball! Right after Krod signed, the Cards should have swooped in and signed him but they didn't. Now the Cards have lost out on "priority #1", according to Tony LaRussa. It sucks and its bullshit that the Cards have done so little, at the trading deadline last year and now this offseason!
The Cardinals made him and offer and were agressive. They tried to swoop in, but Fuentes wanted to wait on the Angels, because it would be fun to play in California. It has nothing to do with them paying him more, because I've never heard of them making him an offer until just recently. Fuentes will probably take less to play in California, because it will be fun. Honestly, I can't blame the guy for going where he wants to play. Everybody always complains about players going to the highest bidder. If he really does sign with the Angles for a 2 year deal at around $8Mil per year... can you hold it against the guy. He would just be going where he wants to play even though there are other teams offering him more.Fuentes Waiting On Teixeira?
Free agent closer Brian Fuentes will reportedly wait out the Mark Teixeira sweepstakes, Ken Rosenthal suggests. Fuentes, who went 1-5 with a 2.73 ERA and 30 SV, is looking at a three year deal worth about 9-11 million dollars. Fuentes has some leverage in negotiations because of his strong finish, going 0-1 with a 1.51 ERA in his final 31 appearances. The Cardinals are the most aggressive suitors for Fuentes, but the Brewers are also interested.
Fuentes told his local newspaper in California that it would be fun to play for the Angels, but GM Tony Reagins told me that it is unlikely they add a closer. Angels manager Mike Scoscia went on to say that he is content with Arredondo and Shields splitting time. We'll see what happens.
Unfortunately, the Cardinals wasted too much time agressively pursuing a player that really had no intentions of signing with them.
Right, Fuentes waited out the market until he received an offer from the team that was his first choice. Once he did (even though it was a lot less than he originally wanted), he jumped on it.The greater concern to St. Louis, though, is Fuentes. The Cardinals had hoped to add a closer this offseason, rather than going with any of the youngsters already on their roster. However, that may no longer be viable.
"[Using a pitcher already in-house to close] has always been an option," Mozeliak said, although manager Tony La Russa has expressed little enthusiasm for such a course. "That's never changed. I think when we saw the market change on closers is when we engaged. So we made an attempt. We weren't [Fuentes'] first choice."
With Fuentes going to Los Angeles, the list of available ninth-inning pitchers is getting shorter. Available in free agency are Trevor Hoffman and Chad Cordero, both of whom have drawn tepid interest from St. Louis at best, as well as non-tendered Takashi Saito, who comes with health questions.
Such pitchers likely hold little interest for the Cardinals.
"Some of the higher medical risk players out there, I would say that is not the path we necessarily want to go down at this point," Mozeliak said. "I'd rather have more of a sure thing."
Closers possibly available in trade include the White Sox's Bobby Jenks, Houston's Jose Valverde and Huston Street of Colorado. It's also possible that the Mets might have some interest in flipping J.J. Putz, whom they acquired from Seattle to be a setup man.
We weren't [Fuentes'] first choice.
Trading an Outfielder for a pitcher would make more sense than overpaying for Fuentes ever did. Although, I don't know how available any of these pitchers really are. I don't see Putz being available unless he really is upset at going back to a set-up role.
Valverde isn't available, Fuentes is much better than Street at this point and Jenks' status is unknown. Putz is not going to be traded again. Mets needed bullpen help just as much as the Cards. Trading an OFer for a starter made more sense since good closers are harder to find. Cards have no closer and will again suffer the consequences. Cards should have traded for Fuentes back in July and re-signed him. That way the Cards might have made the playoffs and would have a closer for the next couple of seasons.
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