This team is not good

[TheDeafbolt]

When our ace and only all star (i thought Eaton should have gone over him even with the injury and Trevor with his ERA even being considered for the last spot is a joke) ... gets outpitched by Andy Pettitte...there are problems. But that does not even matter because look at the lineup Pettitte was going against. If we ever get a lead, Khalil will throw the ball over the 1st baseman's head (GOD KNOWS WHO THAT WILL BE) and let 2 runs score. Close games, leave it to Bochy (he is a coach/manager in San Diego so i dont blame him i mean come on marty/fisher/holland, his job is to lose games) .... he will bring in brian falkenborg and his 900.76 era. Did Greg Vaughn retire yet? Chris Gomez? Andy Sheets? it really sucks when your only decent hitters are (besides giles) mark sweeney and robert fick.

[padrefanforever]

All true..........sad part is watching our lead go away and the upper management doesn't seem to care too much...... This team is horrible, and being the best of the worst isn't something to be too proud of.........can you imagine if we don't have the best May in franchise history ? We'd be right there with the Giants closing in on last place.......

It sure is depressing to watch.......there isn't much worse than watching bad baseball for over a month

[Kobe]

[QUOTE=TheDeafbolt]When our ace and only all star (i thought Eaton should have gone over him even with the injury and Trevor with his ERA even being considered for the last spot is a joke) ... gets outpitched by Andy Pettitte...there are problems.QUOTE]


Since when was Andy Pettite a bad pitcher?

[General]

Since he went to the Astros.

[Kobe]

I guess my point is.. the sky hasn't fallen yet.

Yea this team has its flaws.. but lets hold out and see what KT and company will do regarding filling holes.

As it stands, we're still in first. By 4.5 games..

[padrefanforever]

Kobe.......that's one soft 1st place ballclub.......this team should be in 4th place the way they've played..........1st place by default only..........this club would get smoked by anyone right now......they are HORRIBLE........yes they are injured and will get guys back, yes moves will probably be made by Towers, and yes they can turn it around........but all those things must still happen, at this point we're lucky to be in the NLWest race at all.......DAMN LUCKY.......

[HollywoodLeo]

come on PFF, you're better than this. you agree with my post in the Astacio thread in that we really don't know the true state of this team, then turn around and fall for this chicken little thread? I'm not stating the team is playing great right now, but i'm also not going to proclaim the sky is falling simply because our ace, while pitching with a sore throat, gets out pitched by Andy Pettite.

1. Are the Padres "lucky" to be in 1st right now? yes
2. could they be much further in the lead if not for a major flu bug the first half of july and maddening injuries now? YES
3. is it assinine to insinuate that the management of any major league baseball team could care less about winning? YES
4. Is this a great team thus far? NO
5. Is this a HORRIBLE team thus far? NO

This team is NOT horrible, a horrible team is the Giants and Rockies thus far. You can't just dismiss May like it never happend. "Oh but if they didn't win all those games in May..." whatever, you may as well state "The Padres are winless in games they didn't win!!!!"

Let me reitterate my statement that this supposedly horrible team would not be in 1st, by default or otherwise, if not for the outstanding bench that everyone and their mother critisized Towers for putting together over the offseason.

I will now end this rant with a blanket statement that if they (KT/Alderson) don't get something done prior to the deadline I will be changing my entire outlook on their ability, or at least KT's, to get the job done. I won't go as far as to insinuate Towers doesn't care about winning, cuz that's just idiotic, but I will insinuate that he's incapable of making that happen....IF he doesn't get something done

[padrefanforever]

1. I never came down on Peavy....... EVER !
2. This team if they had not have had the GREATEST MAY IN FRANCHISE HISTORY would be the Giants right now. Thank god they had that May !!!

"yes they are injured and will get guys back, yes moves will probably be made by Towers, and yes they can turn it around........but all those things must still happen, at this point we're lucky to be in the NLWest race at all.......DAMN LUCKY......."

What about that isn't true ? That is what I typed earlier

3. I'm not falling for the chicken little thread...lol... however the truth is what it is.....our team BA is what ? Can we score a run when needed ? Is there any consistancy anywhere on this team right now ?

"sad part is watching our lead go away and the upper management doesn't seem to care too much....."

4. I have NEVER EVER given Towers grief over this bench........this is the best bench I've ever seen in San Diego, and that covers 30+ years of watching this team. However Towers has not gotten a position player or starter that we desperately need, and it's been a year and a half now, that is what I give him grief for. Allowing this team to proceed without a complete pitching staff or another guy playing 3rd is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.....
Did last year after the Allstar break not mean anything to anyone ?
Did we not have a full offseason to right the ship ?
Are we expecting .230 with no power to fill a void at 3rd?
Do we get rid of May ( thank god ) to replace him with Reyes, and expect good things ?

It's moves like this that make me crazy........once again "yes they are injured and will get guys back, yes moves will probably be made by Towers, and yes they can turn it around........but all those things must still happen, at this point we're lucky to be in the NLWest race at all.......DAMN LUCKY......."

[HollywoodLeo]

1. I never came down on Peavy....... EVER !

I never said you did, the part of my post that reffered to "coming down on the team" due to Peavy's start was more of a crack on the thread starter.

2. This team if they had not have had the GREATEST MAY IN FRANCHISE HISTORY would be the Giants right now. Thank god they had that May !!!

Yes this is true, and it's also true that had the Padres not won the 45 games they won they'd be winless right now. Look, you can't just completely dismiss the month of May and proclaim this team "no better than the Giants" Let's analyze this for one second.

May - the team is completely healthy, minus a few injuries here and there, and nobody's sick.

June - the first half of the month half the team, including a lot of key players, are sick with a major flu bug. The 2nd half of the month half the team is injured

May - 22-6

June - 10-17

Who knows, it's kinda hard to analyze how the team is really playing when you're not able to watch the games and are forced to go soley off final scores and stats, But that just seems like too much of a coincidence to me that the team suddenly started losing when those things happend. (Not that i'm discounting the needs you keep pointing out)

"yes they are injured and will get guys back, yes moves will probably be made by Towers, and yes they can turn it around........but all those things must still happen, at this point we're lucky to be in the NLWest race at all.......DAMN LUCKY......."

What about that isn't true ? That is what I typed earlier

I never said any of this isn't true, in fact, it's ALL true. I simply don't think that all of this means that the team is "HORRIBLE!"

"sad part is watching our lead go away and the upper management doesn't seem to care too much....."

4. I have NEVER EVER given Towers grief over this bench........this is the best bench I've ever seen in San Diego, and that covers 30+ years of watching this team. However Towers has not gotten a position player or starter that we desperately need, and it's been a year and a half now, that is what I give him grief for. Allowing this team to proceed without a complete pitching staff or another guy playing 3rd is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.....

We can all play armchair GM if we like, that's half the fun of following the sport, but just because the real GM doesn't seem to fully agree with the strategy he must go with to put together a winning team doesn't mean he "doesn't care too much" When you make a comment like that it makes it seem like Towers could care less about putting together a winning team. Agree with the strategy or not, Towers was attempting to put together the complete staff by finding a better #5 pitcher. You, and me, may think it'd be a bit wiser to find a #2 or #3 and bump people down, but that doesn't mean that Towers could care less that the Padres are struggeling at that position. If that was the case, he would've just kept Justin Germano in the 5 spot rather than wasting his time trying to find someone else to fill the void. And the same thing can be said for third base in regards to finding a replacement for Burroughs versus keeping Burroughs there in hopes of him improving.
I don't know, maybe this is a sensitive flaw in my character, but I simply find it assinine to insinuate the general manager could care less about a weakness in the team simply because you (and I) disagree with his strategy in fixing said weakness. It's not like Towers isn't doing anything about it...it's that, thus far, he's taken the wrong aproach.

Did last year after the Allstar break not mean anything to anyone ?

Sure it did, and, again, contrary to popular belief, Towers WAS doing stuff last season. The problem was he failed at every attempt. Everyone was looking for Towers to make that "Big Splash!" Towers, however, had 3 agendas for the trade deadline that he (and I..at the time) felt was all the team really needed to make the push at the division and then playoffs.

1. Fix the bench - FAILED. Aurilia and Hansen did NOT fix this issue
2. Find a better centerfielder. - FAILED Despite his best efforts, Towers failed at acquiring Steve Finley, who he was actively persuing
3. Fix the #5 spot in the rotation. - FAILED. instead of finding a better pitcher to replace Ismael Valdez the spot only became 10x worse. (although he did get a great prospect in the deal in Travis Chick)

So, the bottom line is, Towers didn't "do nothing" he just failed at everything he attempted to do. That's a lot different than "not caring"

Did we not have a full offseason to right the ship ?

Yes...and we have "the best bench I've ever seen in San Diego, and that covers 30+ years of watching this team." to show for it. Not to mention an outstanding bullpen. Again, I reiterate the very valid point that this team was winning right and left up until everyone and their mother got sick and then injured.

Are we expecting .230 with no power to fill a void at 3rd?

I doubt it, and I doubt that's what they expected at the beginning of the season. Towers has repeatedly thrown Burroughs' name out when discussing possible trade deadline deals. From everything i've read the team is not too pleased with Burroughs' performance, or lack thereof this season.

Do we get rid of May ( thank god ) to replace him with Reyes, and expect good things ?

Again, I doubt this as well. Whereas i'm a bit edgey in that I fear they'll excpet Astacio (vice Reyes) to fill that void, i'd be happy with either one over May anyways. That said, Towers has also publicaly acknowledged the need for another arm...we'll see what happens

Anyways, i'll end this and state, once again, that I agree that we're lucky to be in first place...but that doesn't mean that I will proclaim this team to be "HORRIBLE!" until I see what happens come trade deadline and when everyone comes back from injury.

[riverdunesrat]

Managed to avoid the

Dogs lose and Snakes win

afreakingmazing....

[padrefanforever]

Hollywood......This team that we are watching right now ( well when this was started ) IMO is horrible...... The team we watched in May isn't playing right now.... Don't forget that April was pretty awful too, so 2 out of 3 months were bad.....that's not very good amigo......There are also two distinctly different squads out there this year......I'm seperating the two, I feel you are not. In May you and I discussed what we felt the 'needs' of the team were when they were playing strong, now more than ever is that evident. You and I also discussed the 'failure' of Towers last year, and IMO failure = not doing anything positive to help the team. Should you choose to view it differently therein lies our difference of opinion or interrpretation. Nothing positive is 'nothing' to me. Towers has done a fine job since coming to SD and built a great Bully and Bench, but has severly lacked in ability when it's comes time to get an everyday position player, IMO. You brought up the Finley sweepstakes, we were never in that in reality, you must know that to be the truth. We would never have paid what the Angles did, therefore it was a flight of fancy and not a real possiblity.

Bringing in hasbeen and never were pitchers isn't the answer, and quite frankly I'd rather see Germano over May, Redding or Astacio, and I'm not a Germano fan. At least it's promotion from within. We might as well use our own guys that are already on payroll, instead of bring in other teams crap, and paying out more in salary.... IMO.....

Otherwise........I think you and I don't differ too much in overall assessment of this team.........if all or most of our starters were still playing, I think we have a much better team, but they aren't...........consiquently we're not very good.....and rapidly approaching .500

[HollywoodLeo]

just a few things.

1. sure, you can annotate not accomplishing one's goals as "doing nothing" but that still doesn't mean he "could care less" about the issues of the team. Furthermore, that definition implies George Steinbrenner did nothing for the Yankees this past offseason.

2. When I was talking about Finely, I was reffering to the trade deadline last season when the Dodgers ended up getting him for Koyie Hill and I believe another prospect. Although, I heard the D-Backs wanted Aki or Linebrink for him, and if that was the case I don't blame Towers for not making the move.

3. if you "seperate" the two "teams" (from May and June) then sure, they're "horrible" But i'm trying to analyze the team as a whole

4. April wasn't too good, but it wasn't anything near June either.

5. Also we really need to step up the recruiting here, it seems that for the past few months it's just been an ongoing discussion with you and me, with Kobe and rdr throwing their 2 cents in every now and then.

[padrefanforever]

just a few things.

1. sure, you can annotate not accomplishing one's goals as "doing nothing" but that still doesn't mean he "could care less" about the issues of the team. Furthermore, that definition implies George Steinbrenner did nothing for the Yankees this past offseason.
If we spent like George this conversation wouldn't be happening, it would be an entirely different conversation altogether.....lol.......but good try

2. When I was talking about Finely, I was reffering to the trade deadline last season when the Dodgers ended up getting him for Koyie Hill and I believe another prospect. Although, I heard the D-Backs wanted Aki or Linebrink for him, and if that was the case I don't blame Towers for not making the move.
Exactly we weren't going to spend what was needed to acquire Finley, neither money or resources, so it was a moot point to be in that sweepstakes

3. if you "seperate" the two "teams" (from May and June) then sure, they're "horrible" But i'm trying to analyze the team as a whole
You must be able to seperate the two teams, they are two vastly different teams. I tried to make if very clear when I said "this team is horrible", I also wrote that when we get our guys back things will be much nicer further showing I meant that this team we are watching now is horrible

4. April wasn't too good, but it wasn't anything near June either.
It wasn't far off......and it wasn't good was the simple point.....two bad months, one good, means more was bad than good....

5. Also we really need to step up the recruiting here, it seems that for the past few months it's just been an ongoing discussion with you and me, with Kobe and rdr throwing their 2 cents in every now and then.

Well I'm fine with just you and I talking.....lol.....seems we are the only two real Padre fans left standing ....lol

[realmofotalk]

Pads, have you seen my 'boy fetters?

[padrefanforever]

Fetters.......lol.......nope sure haven't........not in a few weeks or so