Reminiscing about Bochy

[padrefanforever]

Reefer.......is that Bochy taking BP in your avatar

He looks just as lost now as he did back when he played.......actually he probably saw more pitches during BP than he did as a player

[love_that_reefer]

Yes sir it is and you guys can have this loser back. I thought Alou was bad but this guy is like you said, lost!

[padrefanforever]

Yes sir it is and you guys can have this loser back. I thought Alou was bad but this guy is like you said, lost!

He's a sub .500 career manager........and for someone to blame all that on crappy personell is just wrong.......I like Bochy the guy, he's a good guy, but I was never upset over us letting him walk.......lol

Bochy minus a great bullpen = Homer Simpson

[HollywoodLeo]

He's a sub .500 career manager........and for someone to blame all that on crappy personell is just wrong.......

So you're telling me anyone else could've taken the 99-03 Padres to the playoffs?

[padrefanforever]

Yes HWood......I said "anyone".........

[HollywoodLeo]

ok let me reword the question anyways.

So you're telling me a better manager would've been able to take those shitty teams to the playoffs?

[padrefanforever]

1994 Bochy took over......so I'm not sure why you're only using 1999-2003......Also it's not either sub .500 or playoff bound.......there is a ton of area inbetween......I've never suggested a better manager would = playoffs, but I do think a better manager would = plus .500 during many of the seasons. So having said that .....to your question and quote.....

So you're telling me a better manager would've been able to take those shitty teams to the playoffs?

We'll never know for sure will we.......I would wager, and I do believe that a better manager could have during some of those seasons.....why not ? Some of the years were just horrific all the way around, and nobody could have done much better, but not all of them.

1995 sub .500 with the team they had was terrible IMO, maybe not playoff bound, but not a sub .500 team, and who knows, with the right manager making the correct moves, they just might have made the post season.

1996 should have seen us far deeper in the playoffs than swept in round 1, and possibly in the WS....

1997 should have seen the post season without a doubt.......utter failure

1998 - great season all the way around

1999 - debuting rookies is a killer for most, and I said not every year is on him

2000 - was a nightmare year if I remember correctly with injuries plaguing us, even still we had some damn good players posting career #'s and a good manager should have been able to steer that kind of team to a plus .500 season.

2001 - same as 2000 without the injury plague, guys posting decent #'s and sub .500

2002 - I'd give that Bochy had near zero shot of success, nor would anyone....horrible injury season again for us

2003 - Guys post career #'s, and we only win 64 games...36.5 game out ??? Gotta be kidding me right ?? This is the kind of year a manager should be shot dead.....

If you focus on the first year Petco was open....IMO a better manager gets this team into the playoffs......we were in the race until the final weekend, and I have no doubt we could look at the season and realize how many times Bochy should have played smallball to score and win games, but refused as usual, or bunted and refused, or started a stud youngster over some flailing vet, but refused.......netting us say 6 more wins on the year vaulting us into 1st place and the playoffs.......

Bochy failed to utiize the weapons at his disposal, and instead frequently chose to play veteran players over better, younger, hungrier guys. This was/is a major flaw, and it's not going to change......IMO this along with his inability to adapt his managerial style to the kind of team he's given is why he's a sub .500 manager.......more so than the personell being the issue

[love_that_reefer]

After seeing Bochy the past few years, I thought this man knew how to manage a bullpen but boy was I wrong. If you read my reviews of the first half for the Giants, you will know what I think of his performance thus far.

[HollywoodLeo]

All i know is everytime Bochy has been given a playoff caliber team in San Diego he took them to the playoffs, with the exception of 1997

[FmrFresnan]

I think Bud Black will be a better manager with at least 1 World Series title after his tenure is done.

[padrefanforever]

All i know is everytime Bochy has been given a playoff caliber team in San Diego he took them to the playoffs, with the exception of 1997

The problem with this is you can't say for sure some of those teams weren't "playoff calibur" teams.....since he did such a bad job managing them you'll never know what they could have done.......maybe Bochy has only had a non playoff possible team 3 times in his career......those were the years the Padres suffered massive injuries and the one year we basically started rookies at almost every spot......

He's been the recipient of many good teams, and had years when more than one guy was having a career season.....and he couldn't even keep the team above .500.......

and Bochy being a sub .500 manager is what this topic was all about, not his inability to get more of his teams to the playoffs......

Bud Black has a team with a terrible offense, and as of now he's way over .500, and on his way to the post season.......can you imagine if he were also the recipient of a couple position players having career years ???

[HollywoodLeo]

Come on, pff, one look at those rosters tells you they aren't playoff caliber teams.

Mangers need talent to win at the major league level. There's only so much control a major league manager really has on the game. They're already at the majors so he doesn't have to teach them anything, which is half the manager's job when you're growing up and in high school ball...even the minors to a small degree I imagine.

All the manager really does is decide who to bat when and when to take out the pitcher.

But if he has garbage to work with none of that really matters all that much.

Bochy had garbage to work with from 1999-2003...which was turned into a smelly pile of turds some years with injuries.

The fact that Bochy even sniffed first place for short periods of time in that timeframe is a small miracle in and of itself.

[padrefanforever]

You really need to get away from the word "playoff" in a conversation discusing why Bochy is a sub .500 manager.........nobody cares whether he could have taken the teams to the playoffs......it's irrelevant in this conversation. I just entertained you by saying, that there was no way to know, since he did such a bad job even keeping his teams near .500, whether a good manager might have been able to get more out of those team, and even some of those teams to the post season. IMO a few of the teams just might have been able to make a run had they been managed well. Bochy was unable to adapt his mangerial skills to the types of teams he was given.....his refusal is why many of those games were lost, and why some of those seasons were a total bust......IMO

[HollywoodLeo]

We seem to both be in agreement that you'd probably need one of the greatest managers in history to get those teams to sniff the playoffs.

Presuming I'm correct on this notion does it really make too much of a difference whether or not they could have and/or should have been at or above .500 when you take into account that 5 out of 6 playoff caliber rosters Bochy was given made the playoffs?

On a side note, I'm going to make a separate Bochy thread to not further derail the trade rumors thread so please hold off on a response till then.

[HollywoodLeo]

Now that this is its own discussion I'll ward off the obvious reply of "What difference does it make?" It doesn't make much of a difference, Bud Black is doing a fine job IMHO, and things are the way they are.

That being said, there's no harm and no foul in discussing this for the sake of discussion.