It's looking more and more like AJ Burnett is headed for pinstripes

[ljshorty89]

You have to account for the fact Swisher has spent almost his entire career playing in a park equivalent to PETCO. That will hurt his raw numbers, making him seem worse, or not as good as he is.

As opposed to Nady who spent most of his career either in PETCO, or Shea Stadium(Big time pitcher's park), and PNC (pitcher's park). Let's be fair, that has hurt both people.

[Mach]

Track record? I too will take the track record and go with Nady. Let me get this straight because this is very telling. Swisher's 4 point lead in OPS+ overcomes Nady's .37 lead in BA?? And yes Swisher will be playing out of position. Swisher came up as an OFer and has more games as an OFer. First base is not his natural position. And Swisher hit leadoff only 29 times last year. Why anyone would bat him leadoff is beyond me but yeah, that wasn't why he sucked. Yankees need Teixeira more and more as this debate goes on

The Yanks do need Tex pretty bad IMO.

Swisher has played more games in the OF than 1B, but 1B the most out of any one position.

Nady's BA is not as important as Swisher's OBP, which is more telling.

[Mach]

As opposed to Nady who spent most of his career either in PETCO, or Shea Stadium(Big time pitcher's park), and PNC (pitcher's park). Let's be fair, that has hurt both people.

You're right, which is why I broke it down in my wall of text.

Basically the issue is Swisher's one bad year is dragging him down. Nady's career year is pulling him up. It's not as close as it seems, Swisher's even better when we normalize the flukes.

[ljshorty89]

Season Average Neutralized(Park and Team neutral) Stats for both:

Swisher- .248/.360/.457 OPS: .817 28 HR, 85 RBI
Nady- .280/.335/.457 OPS: .792, 21 HR, 78 RBI

Just as a reference. This is from Baseball-Reference. Personally, I'm not a big Swisher fan, and both will most likely see everyday playing time this year.

[love_that_reefer]

So its the park's fault Swisher strikes out so often and can't hit for average. The whole time I thought it was because he wasn't that good of a hitter. I mean, his home/away splits suggest he sucks everywhere he goes. He actually hit more homers at home than away Nady is more well rounded. Does he get the walks? No. Does he get the hits? Yes. Who has recent success? You wouldn't be managing long if you started Swisher over Nady when one is improving and one is regressing. Again, the 4 point lead in OPS makes up for the .37 lead in BA? Not in my book. Nady's OBP is league average while he hits .15 points higher than league average. Again, I'll take the more complete hitter.

[love_that_reefer]

Swisher hits for more power and works the strike zone better. Nady has a better average. Who's the better all around hitter?

I will take getting on base in any context, and Swisher is better than Nady at that. Walks make the pitcher work and preserve outs, much like hits do, save the making a pitcher work.

Swisher is a natural 1B, that's where he'll be playing.

Nady is not the more solid player. He just has the better average.

Swisher has slightly more power Nady has the better SLG!! Nady is the better all around hitter!! Its not even close.

Hits leads to runs and moving runners. Important to do especially in the bottom of the order. Swisher's 30-40 more strikeouts hurts down there.

Swisher is a natural first baseman?? When did this shit start? He played only 7 games at first in the minors:laughs: He is an OF. Oh and by the way, he hits .225 as a first baseman. Not good.

No, Nady is the more solid player.

[browntown653]

Again, I'll take the more complete hitter.

Good to see you've finally decided to take Swisher.

[love_that_reefer]

Oh no browntown. If I wanted Swisher, I would have said "Again, I'll take the less talented hitter."

[Mach]

Season Average Neutralized(Park and Team neutral) Stats for both:

Swisher- .248/.360/.457 OPS: .817 28 HR, 85 RBI
Nady- .280/.335/.457 OPS: .792, 21 HR, 78 RBI

Just as a reference. This is from Baseball-Reference. Personally, I'm not a big Swisher fan, and both will most likely see everyday playing time this year.

You know, I should have done that.

And that's including Swisher's awful 2008, yes? And still look at that gap.

[Mach]

So its the park's fault Swisher strikes out so often and can't hit for average. The whole time I thought it was because he wasn't that good of a hitter.

K's are overrated, an out is an out. Who cares he doesn't hit for AVG? He doesn't make outs like Nady.

I mean, his home/away splits suggest he sucks everywhere he goes. He actually hit more homers at home than away Nady is more well rounded. Does he get the walks? No.

Exactly.

Does he get the hits? Yes.

But he gets on base less. When his bat speed goes, he's done.

Simple: Nady's H+BB < Swisher's H+BB

Who has recent success?

So now recent success in the last year is important? ****, Cliff Lee over Roy Oswalt, and Matt Cain hell yeah.

Or not.

You wouldn't be managing long if you started Swisher over Nady when one is improving and one is regressing.

And you wouldn't be managing long since you can't understand fluke.

Again, the 4 point lead in OPS makes up for the .37 lead in BA? Not in my book. Nady's OBP is league average while he hits .15 points higher than league average. Again, I'll take the more complete hitter.

But Swisher walks more. Are those singles really more important to you than walks? Really? That's all those higher BA points are. Singles instead of walks. As was posted earlier, they have the same adjusted slugging. Why would I want a guy who gets on base less just because he hits a few more singles? Are the extra outs really worth it?

Nady is complete in that he does nothing well, and everything about average. Swish gets on base quite well.

[Mach]

Swisher has slightly more power Nady has the better SLG!! Nady is the better all around hitter!! Its not even close.

It's about even in SLG when adjusted. Nady has poor plate discipline. I'm a broekn record here.

Hits leads to runs and moving runners. Important to do especially in the bottom of the order. Swisher's 30-40 more strikeouts hurts down there.

K's are the same as pop outs. Swisher makes less outs. When Swisher walks, Nady grounds out. When Nady gets a hit, Swisher walks. Getting on base and not getting out is the most important thing.

Swisher is a natural first baseman?? When did this shit start? He played only 7 games at first in the minors:laughs: He is an OF. Oh and by the way, he hits .225 as a first baseman. Not good.

He's played more games at 1B than any position in the majors. That's a factual statement. Besides, I'd sign Tex and move him to RF anyway.

No, Nady is the more solid player.

Having a higher BA does not make you more solid. H+BB+TB/PA (which is AVG/OBP/SLG) and determines that. Swisher wins that category.

[love_that_reefer]

K's are the same as fly outs? What about sac flies? What about grounds outs with a runner on third and less than two outs? So many scenarios that are better than K's. When Nady hits, Swisher either strikes out or walks. Hits generate more offense, especially with RISP. I'll take the guy with a .44 better average in that department, since you like gaps so much. Dismissing the clear cut advantage in average is foolish. It is not the best stat but it tells a story when the OPS is so close.

Swisher has played 94 more games in the OF than at first. Your statement was not fact, mine is! Gets your facts straight. Another fact, Swisher played exactly seven games at first in the minors. I'd sign Teixeira and keep the better defensive and offensive RFer in the game in Nady.

How does Swisher win? Nady gets more hits and Swisher has a slight lead in OPS. Again, the huge gap in BA cannot be ignored.

[love_that_reefer]

K's are overrated, an out is an out. Who cares he doesn't hit for AVG? He doesn't make outs like Nady.

Swisher makes more outs on average than Nady.

Oh yeah, I would be managing a lot longer especially if the other managers thought like you. Better defense and a better hitter stays in my lineup and won't be benched for the lesser player. Not basing it on "flukes", just talent.

And yes, these "singles" are more important in the bottom half of the order than walks. Singles can move runners and even drive in runs. What a crazy concept!! Walks don't drive in runs unless the bases are loaded. And what a player does once on base matters too. Swisher isn't fast. OBP for slow guys like that are misleading.

This is starting to bore me. You value a slight lead in OPS, I value the enormous gap in BA. I'll take the better hitter with RISP and better defender. You like Swisher, I like Nady. Let's call the whole thing off

[Mach]

K's are the same as fly outs? What about sac flies? What about grounds outs with a runner on third and less than two outs? So many scenarios that are better than K's. When Nady hits, Swisher either strikes out or walks. Hits generate more offense, especially with RISP. I'll take the guy with a .44 better average in that department, since you like gaps so much. Dismissing the clear cut advantage in average is foolish. It is not the best stat but it tells a story when the OPS is so close.

It comes down to Swish getting on base more, which is more productive than making outs. Simple as that.

Swisher has played 94 more games in the OF than at first. Your statement was not fact, mine is! Gets your facts straight. Another fact, Swisher played exactly seven games at first in the minors. I'd sign Teixeira and keep the better defensive and offensive RFer in the game in Nady.

OF is one position now? Holy shit, are you sure you watch baseball? Read what I wrote again.

How does Swisher win? Nady gets more hits and Swisher has a slight lead in OPS. Again, the huge gap in BA cannot be ignored.

It can when Swisher has that gap in OBP and walks. Simple equation: Swisher's H+BB > Nady's H+BB

[love_that_reefer]

Swish makes more outs than Nady, simple as that. Swisher with more plate appearances still only has a slight lead in Runs Created. 5.6 to Nady's 5.3.

He's an OFer!! There is no getting around it. You can play semantics all you want but doesn't change the fact. Yes, I watch baseball and apparently more closely than you or this wouldn't even be a debate Swisher is not a natural first baseman as I have clearly pointed out. Hardly even played until he got to the bigs. He is a natural OFer. That is the fact, Jack.

That gap in OBP is lesser than the gap in BA and Swisher still makes more outs.

I'm taking the better defender and hitter, Xavier Nady.