It's looking more and more like AJ Burnett is headed for pinstripes

[Mach]

The scouting reports on okajima indicated he would be no better than a Long Reliever guy... that one turned out to be pretty wrong

I mean don't get me wrong CC/Burnett are good but for the back end i'd rather see Pettite/Byrd (btw i doubt he goes there from Boston) than a Sheets

Sheets always scares me when he is on the mound

I thought Oki was profiled more as a LOOGY?

Yes, and which has more value over the season? 20 Sheets starts and say 13 Rasner starts? Or 33 Byrd starts?

Byrd BTW was just an example. He'll probably wind up in WSH or BLT maybe ATL.

[cjkalt]

I'd say 20 sheets and 13 Rasner, sheets in those 20 games is the favorite to win 16 at least

[Mach]

I'd say 20 sheets and 13 Rasner, sheets in those 20 games is the favorite to win 16 at least

We tried that last year to an extent. It didn't quite work out.

The offense can only carry so much. We lost a lot of games 10-8 last year. If Sheets gives up 2, Byrd gives up 5, Rasner gives up 10 and we score on average 6, Sheet's runs saved are a surplus, and games Byrd could have won regardless. On the slip side, we lose games with Rasner going that could have been won by Byrd.

Of course you could be correct, I'm arguing from my gut for once. I'd love to see numbers run for value of 20 starts of Sheets and 13 starts of replacement level, and 33 starts of a league average player. That would settle the discussion in my mind.

[cjkalt]

I could be convinced if the #'s told me elsewise...be interesting to see where the cutoff on starts is? is it 20, 22 25?

[Mach]

I could be convinced if the #'s told me elsewise...be interesting to see where the cutoff on starts is? is it 20, 22 25?

Exactly: what's the break even point? Plus you'd have to know exactly the players involved.

The other thing is, Sheets may cost 14MM. Byrd, or thereabouts may be cheap, 3MM or so. That's 11MM free. That can be put towards a Teixeira or the like. Wouldn't a Byrd/Teixeira combo for say 30MM a year be better than a Sheets/Nady combo for 20MM? Money of course plays a part too. It's not quite a vacuum.

[Dry1313]

And with both Joba and Hughes set for only 130 IP's, that's a problem. Someone will need to make Joba's starts, even with him getting skipped, and it won't be Hughes who has his own limit. So you're looking at filling, what, 10+ starts for each Joba and Burnett? What's 20 starts? The amount of starts Rasner made last year.

And that's not including the 30 starts the other pitcher we'll bring in needs to make. At least we should only need 2 depth pitchers, unlike last year when we needed 5, though that was partially due to our depth sucking. It's high risk/high reward at a time where we need innings out of our other four pitchers. That fourth/fifth starter we might be signing had better be more than shit at the wall.

While I agree with you, you're crazy if you think Aceves won't make the team as at least a long reliever/spot starter.

That being said, **** Sheets. Pettite is what we need. I'll explain shortly.

Well, for Andy, I think he'll bounce back, as he really suffered from his defense. By revised zone rating, the Yanks were the worst D in baseball, and Pettitte had a good FIP ERA, which eliminates the things pitchers can't control. Pettitte's BB rate, K rate, all that stuff either stayed the same or got a tick better, so he shouldn't have been as bad as he ended up, and he was gassed in addition.

In any case, I'd take Paul Byrd or so production from the 5 spot, becuase the other folks are Sabathia, Burnett, Wang and Joba, all high end pitchers. We can afford one mediocre pitcher who will stay healthy. It's better than gambling on another injury risk, and running replacement level pitchers out there in 3 spots potentially, much like last year.

Pettite was beast. How quick Yankee fans forget; Pettite gave up 5 or more runs in 5 out of 33 starts...also, he had less than 6 IP in 9 of 33...

Also, while he was relatively hit or miss, if our lineup could have given him the 4.5 run support they gave to the other SPs, he would've won most of his games, probably 17-11

You'd rather face Sheets/Giese/Aceves in a series than Sabathia/Burnett/Byrd? I'm glad we agree, if it turns out that way, we may see the playoffs soon yet.

Aceves has had all of 6 games and 4 starts. People were saying the same of Rasner. He's no more than a back end guy at best right now. Let's get a better sample first.

The scouting reports for the first one you signed have been less than glowing. There's nothing special to any of the ones you've been after.

Burnett has never pitched in the postseason and Byrd is a washed up pushover who only beats the Yankees.

We know nothing about how Aceves and Giese act in the postseason...

Also, Aceves is a damned good #5, shutting down the ChiSox in the playoff hunt, and the Red Sox in the division hunt. The guy's a goddamned gamer sisyphus

The scouting reports on okajima indicated he would be no better than a Long Reliever guy... that one turned out to be pretty wrong

I mean don't get me wrong CC/Burnett are good but for the back end i'd rather see Pettite/Byrd (btw i doubt he goes there from Boston) than a Sheets

Sheets always scares me when he is on the mound

Who cares who is scary?

We shouldn't pay money to inconsistent *****es with raw talent who don't produce.

That's either the Reds, Giants, or Orioles.

I thought Oki was profiled more as a LOOGY?

Yes, and which has more value over the season? 20 Sheets starts and say 13 Rasner starts? Or 33 Byrd starts?

Byrd BTW was just an example. He'll probably wind up in WSH or BLT maybe ATL.

Or none of the above...what about 33 Pettite starts?

Not to mention, hit or miss, he has shown he can show up and dominate any team any day out.

I'd say 20 sheets and 13 Rasner, sheets in those 20 games is the favorite to win 16 at least

God, Sheets is ****ing overrated as shit and hasn't pitched consistently well for ages, aka Kerry Wood until he became a closer

We tried that last year to an extent. It didn't quite work out.

The offense can only carry so much. We lost a lot of games 10-8 last year. If Sheets gives up 2, Byrd gives up 5, Rasner gives up 10 and we score on average 6, Sheet's runs saved are a surplus, and games Byrd could have won regardless. On the slip side, we lose games with Rasner going that could have been won by Byrd.

Of course you could be correct, I'm arguing from my gut for once. I'd love to see numbers run for value of 20 starts of Sheets and 13 starts of replacement level, and 33 starts of a league average player. That would settle the discussion in my mind.

Both of you are wrong...

Exactly: what's the break even point? Plus you'd have to know exactly the players involved.

The other thing is, Sheets may cost 14MM. Byrd, or thereabouts may be cheap, 3MM or so. That's 11MM free. That can be put towards a Teixeira or the like. Wouldn't a Byrd/Teixeira combo for say 30MM a year be better than a Sheets/Nady combo for 20MM? Money of course plays a part too. It's not quite a vacuum.

True enough

[browntown653]

We're not getting Teixeira.

[Mach]

While I agree with you, you're crazy if you think Aceves won't make the team as at least a long reliever/spot starter.

I think he or Giese will be the long man. Spring training will decide that I gather.

That being said, **** Sheets. Pettite is what we need. I'll explain shortly.

Pettite was beast. How quick Yankee fans forget; Pettite gave up 5 or more runs in 5 out of 33 starts...also, he had less than 6 IP in 9 of 33...

Also, while he was relatively hit or miss, if our lineup could have given him the 4.5 run support they gave to the other SPs, he would've won most of his games, probably 17-11

I agree. As I posted, Pettitte was better than it seemed. I'd love to have him back.

Burnett has never pitched in the postseason and Byrd is a washed up pushover who only beats the Yankees.

We know nothing about how Aceves and Giese act in the postseason...

Also, Aceves is a damned good #5, shutting down the ChiSox in the playoff hunt, and the Red Sox in the division hunt. The guy's a goddamned gamer sisyphus

Byrd would have been one of our better pitchers last year. They guy is league average. I think you just hate old people.

As Giese and Aceves are unknowns in the playoffs, so is Burnett. Burnett has better stuff by far. I'd rather not see Giese or Aceves in the playoffs. There's a lot of players we don't know how they'd pitch, and I don't want to find out.

And Aceves has had 6 games. 6. And you're making him out to be this amazing player. There's nothing to indicate he'd be more than a back end guy.

Or none of the above...what about 33 Pettite starts?

I'd be fine with that.

Not to mention, hit or miss, he has shown he can show up and dominate any team any day out.

As has Sheets FWIW.

God, Sheets is ****ing overrated as shit and hasn't pitched consistently well for ages, aka Kerry Wood until he became a closer

Sheets did make 31 starts this year. That's not ages.

Both of you are wrong...

I agree with you on Pettitte.

[Mach]

We're not getting Teixeira.

George King, who has as much credibility as the boy who cried wolf, did suggest it, but we do have the payroll space to take him on. Our lineup is in sorry shape right now; with Matsui and Swisher the 3 and 5 guys. That's not good enough I believe.

Whether they DO sign Tex, is up in the air, but they can afford him, and it can be argued, they do need him.

[browntown653]

They could use him, but it's not happening. To say this team is going to sign Teixeira is, in my mind, a pipe dream. I still think he'll return to Anaheim.

[ljshorty89]

I can't imagine the Yankees sign him. Perhaps they have the payroll space, although i had an argument in another thread that they will have already spent almost all of the 88 million coming off the cap, but the problem is the roster spot. They already have Gardner, Damon, Matsui, Swisher, Nady, Melky. If they then add Tex, they would have 7 guys for 5 spots. You would be forced to have Swisher coming off the bench, and I can't imagine a newly acquired 6 million dollar man being a bench player.

[Mach]

I can't imagine the Yankees sign him. Perhaps they have the payroll space, although i had an argument in another thread that they will have already spent almost all of the 88 million coming off the cap, but the problem is the roster spot. They already have Gardner, Damon, Matsui, Swisher, Nady, Melky. If they then add Tex, they would have 7 guys for 5 spots. You would be forced to have Swisher coming off the bench, and I can't imagine a newly acquired 6 million dollar man being a bench player.

The logjam is easily solved with either playing Nady part time or trading him. He is a FA after this year, and I'd have to believe Swish is in place to take over. A RF platoon also solves that issue.

The Yanks payroll right now is at 170MM roughly. They still have money left over.

[love_that_reefer]

Swisher stealing ABs from Nady is a bad idea.

[Mach]

Swisher stealing ABs from Nady is a bad idea.

Why? Nady had a career year last year he will not repeat. Swisher also had an abnormally bad year that he should not repeat as his BABIP was ridiculously low.

It would not be surprising in the least to see Swisher outperform Nady next year.

[cjkalt]

You guys really think Boston is going to sit here and watch NY get every big gun? Tex is coming to Boston, if we was going to Anaheim he woulda already taken their 8 yr 160 mil+ offer? He is waiting for Boston to up its offer (which probably isn't at 8 and 20 yet) to something he can live with. He wants to win, if he just wanted money he would have extended with Texas when they offered him that huge deal. He wants money and a winner, and his wife wants to be near home.

I hope you guys take Petitte back because apparently sheets and his 3.09 era in 31 starts isn't good enough for you...

good luck with that end of the rotation, pettite will start to breakdown too