Baltimore Orioles
Boston Red Sox
New York Yankees
Tampa Bay Rays
Toronto Blue Jays
Chicago White Sox
Cleveland Indians
Detroit Tigers
Kansas City Royals
Minnesota Twins
Houston Astros
LA Angels
Oakland Athleticss
Seattle Mariners
Texas Rangers
Atlanta Braves
Miami Marlins
New York Mets
Philadelphia Phillies
Washington Nationals
Chicago Cubs
Cincinnati Reds
Milwaukee Brewers
Pittsburgh Pirates
St. Louis Cardinals
Arizona Diamondbacks
Colorado Rockies
Los Angeles Dodgers
San Diego Padres
San Francisco GiantsMaybe any manager who would point Tony Womack at his head and pull the trigger should be fired.
Maybe any manager who would point Tony Womack at his head and pull the trigger should be fired.
Originally Posted by love_that_reefer
Heck, I would even be for reassigning him as VP in charge of Miscellaneous Operations and Special Events or something.
I am not for crapping on him but firing managers is the nature of the beast in pro sports. Anyone want to guess why Coach K of Duke doesn't take a NBA job?
A motivator can't turn crap into gold. I'm not saying the players on this team are crap, because obviously we have a lot of all star-caliber guys. I am saying the pieces just don't fit together. You talk about the 31 come from behind wins last year at this time... that is an aberration. Very few teams come back when behind that often. By all practical means we should have ended the year with something like 90 wins rather than 101 based on the difference of runs scored to runs allowed. Our starting pitching was awful. Our defense was sloppy. We couldn't hit with runners in scoring position, everything you are complaining about now. Nothing has changed from last year to this except that the Yankees don't have that magic that allows them to come from behind with such frequency. If you want to blame that on lack of motivation, then fine, but I chalk it all up to luck. They were lucky last year. Very lucky.
You talk about the Yankees leading the league in unearned runs? Yeah, I wonder why? How about because our defense SUCKS? Jeter is certainly not a gold glove SS. A-Rod has the range of a rock at 3B. Giambi regularly plays 1B now. Sheffield has turned into a ninny in RF. Cano has almost 10 errors already. Bernie never had good instincts in CF. Now he can't run. Matsui is OK in LF but he has his ugly moments as well. MOTIVATION CAN NOT HELP AN OLD TEAM SUDDENLY BECOME GREAT FIELDERS AGAIN! THEY JUST AREN'T AS ATHLETIC AS THEY USED TO BE!
The Yankees are 1-27 in games where they score less than 4 runs. Yes, this is true. Motivation a factor, you say? Nuh-uh. Crappy starting pitching.
The drop-off of HRs can be attributed to Jeter's power coming back down to earth, Matsui's power coming back down to earth, and most importantly, the worst OFer in 99 years, Tony Womack getting regular time in the lineup. Even Lofton hit a few dingers. Also, if you hadn't noticed, HRs are down a bit league-wide because of the new steroid policy. Our team BA is up a bit from last year and we are striking out considerably less, so w/e.
Moose is having a better year than he did last year.
Randy Johnson is old. His back is bothering him. He is pitching outside in a cold weather climate for the first time in his career. He is also switching leagues. He is having trouble controlling his pitches. All of these signs point to his ERA going UP! None of these things are Torre's fault.
Pavano went from the NL East, the weakest hitting division in baseball, to the AL East, a pitcher's nightmare. He is also having control problems; probably due to poor mechanics. Joe can't solve his mechanical problems. That is Mel's job. He had one good year before he came here too, that is hardly a reliable pitching history to fall back on.
Wright was never that great and everyone knew he would be a huge risk. He didn't pan out and got injured. It seems leaving Mazzone killed his ability to pitch.
What I am telling you is, our important hitters: Jeter, A-Rod, Matsui, and Sheffield, are pretty much living up to their potential. Robinson Cano has exceeded expectations. Their defense has not been great however. That has cost us, but these guys aren't great defenders at their positions anyway.
The expectations that you have, that most of us had at the beginning of the year are based on the past performance of mainly VERY OLD players. We all know that very old players are very streaky. We have seen that in Bernie for the past three seasons and now we are seeing it in the team as a whole. Your 200 million reasons why they should be doing better is bologna. Just because the FO spent very poorly and have had possibly the worst offseason
in the history of baseball does not mean Torre should be fired. Money does not translate into wins. It doesn't even translate into production! We are paying Jeter nearly 20 million dollars! TWENTY MILLION FOR A .300 HITTER WHO GENERALLY ONLY HITS 16-18 HRS! That isn't worth it and he hasn't been close to worth that since last century! So maybe Torre hasn't been motivating him enough, hmmm? If that is the case he should have been fired in 2002. Giambi? About 13.5 million, and that is only going to increase in the coming years because his contract is so back-loaded. Mussina? 19 million. Definately not worth that. We are paying our closer over 10 million dollars! Granted, he is irreplaceable, but that is a very large chunk of money to have invested in a guy that will pitch about 65 innings this year. Hey, how about Steve Karsay? We are paying him 6 million and he isn't even on the team! The only guy worth his contract is Matsui at 8 million.
I don't believe in luck in baseball. Good players as well as teams make their own luck. When our lineup is playing up to their skill level, we can put runs on the board versus anyone. Our inability to hit in key situations or against subpar pitchers is a lack of positive attitude in the dugout. The 101 wins was no accident. How many times since 2002 have we won over 100 games? 3 for 3.
I don't disagree wit what you are saying about the poor fielders. Shouldn't manager make the players take a bit more pride in their work or is that just for Corporate America? Why do teams play well when a new manager comes in? Why is it talked about the little things are stressed?
Clubhouse attitude. Someone should take responsibility for the mental attitude on this team. Do they play like they believe they will win?
1. If Womack is so much of a albatross, then that is Torre's fault for playing him.
2. Torre does not effect the HR ball, I will grant that. He does fill out the lineup card.
Well, aren't we the charity case? Please. I am aware that you can expect eras to go up with the NL pitchers coming here but it is disturbing how many actual quality starts they have made. Yes, they are upgrades over what we had last year.
Sure at bat some of our guys have done okay most of the time. There is still no excuse for the 3-7 record vs the D-Rays or getting swept by KC with Unit, Pavano, and Moose going. Next of all, what about their attitude in the field? Okay if they hit a HR but if they make a 2-run error then who cares about the HR. Attitude.
Lastly, I will be in the front of line to say that the Yankees overpay players and have made some terrible choices some obvious and some terrible in hindsight. The bottom line is that this team has talent and Torre has the tools to win. We have played abysmal and are just 4.5 games out depending on what Boston does. It is my opinion thatwe need a shakeup. We have done it with lineups and players in different positions, maybe it is time to get Girardi or Mattingly in there to see if the players play a little harder for them.
The Yankees have won six pennants in Torre's tenure and won four World Series championships. That's not too chabby considering how much success he had in the late '90s. It sucks to blame a manager for blowing games, but who else would you blame? You'd have to blame the players.
George should be patient with his team-if he talks too much regarding his team for their failures, is that really a motivation for the Yankees ballclub? Not really.
Again, pennants are nice but it is almost considered failure if they do not win it all at this point. It has been 5 years since the last title.
Maybe 1996-2000 spoiled us and took us back to the 1940's and 1950's Yankees. I don't think you can look at 1982- 1993 and compare. Not as much was invested and we knew we had junk for a team.
There is a fine line when the Boss makes his statements or has his meetings as to how positive it is for the team. You can't get around that the expectations are there, you are a 200 million dollar team on a mission for one thing and one thing only to win it all. That is pressure.
As far as assigning blame...sure the players are at fault but whoever heard of firing 25 players compared to one manager. I feel it is the last shake up to do. I will concede that if things pickup, this will not happen. The Yankees are 4.5 games out and depending on how Boston does tonight, they could move up to 4 out. They have a make or break schedule coming up. If they do well then it will add to Torre's legend but if they don't then they will be one of the biggest flops as a team in MLB history.
No, the biggest flop in MLB history was last year's loss to the Red Sox in the playoffs.
This team has potential to not even make it to the point to flop in the playoffs. I know what I consider worse.
You can not deny however that the heart of this team's problems lies with the starting pitching. You can't say the offense is a problem when they have the third most runs scored in the AL. They are getting it done. The pitching has not lived up to its potential and that is not Torre's fault. He can't help that in any way.
I am somewhat confused why you are not pointing the finger at Mel. He is the pitching coach after all. Every young pitcher that has come into NY from the outside has failed under Mel. That is well-documented now. Besides that however, Moose is pitching about as well as you can expect him to pitch with his age and declining stuff. Brown is as brittle as rusted metal. Johnson is the real inigma though. I still can't figure out what is wrong with him. I know his back is hurt and what not, but he should still be pitching better than he has been.
Perhaps this is what we get for relying on sooo many new pitchers to lead us to the playoffs when everyone knows full well it takes about a year to get adjusted to playing for the Yankees?
Let me say this, every year or off season you go out and make your moves to try and win the championship. The last 5 years is it you can't get it done. Why not build around you talent in the minors. You make the moves and you keep getting older not younger as I believe a team wants to get.
I am happy that the Twins don't do what your yankees do. Yes you beat us every year. But this year or the next we will start running over you guys. We have so much young pitching talent in the minors. You will see two pitch over the all star game. Boywer and Lianaro. Both two top pitching specs who will make the club by years or next year for sure.
I guess all I am saying is the approach your team has is buy -trade for what we need, it has not worked. Just my thoughts to this.
KBSL - Atlanta Hawks
Arizona gm - MSL
that was last year...did they play up to the year before's expectations? No, they did better last year than the year before...you can't expect the same results every year. They didn't have those stats every season of their career
And if the $200 million that is distributed among the players isn't motivation enough, then they've got problems...This isn't college or little league where the guys need to be motivated; these are professionals who are getting paid to play a kids game...they need to take pride in their job and do it correctly. You can't blame Torre for that. If anything, you can blame Steinbrenner for overpaying these guys into complacency
No kidding. That's why we need to lose this year. We need Cashman to go. And we need George to get a good GM who knows what he's doing and stay out of it.
"Players can't get better over time." -GiantsFanatic
If George lets Cashman go this offseason I find it more likely that he will hire a "yes man" to do the job. George seems to like having full control over the Yankees again. I shudder at the idea that one of his Tampa stooges could become our new GM. Maybe if we are lucky he will make Stick GM again.
George is senile. He has no clue what he's doing.
"Players can't get better over time." -GiantsFanatic
Register To Reply
