Anyone else feel it is time to fire Joe Torre?

[Veovis]

The situational hitting has been a problem this year, but that is absolutely nothing new. For the past couple of seasons going back to the Rick Down years the Yankees have been lousy at driving runners in. Sheffield, A-Rod, and Matsui have been pretty darn good at getting hits with runners in scoring position. The problem is everywhere else in the lineup. There are some amazing holes in the lineup. Posada, Jeter, and Cano are doing good. Giambi at least is still getting on base, but Bernie, Tino, AND ESPECIALLY Womack are sapping the offense at the moment.

Our problem is starting pitching. Pure and simple. The starters inability to keep the other team down and not give up the long ball has killed us. With so much pressure being put on the offense everyone is pressing.

Why don't we win close games, and just as importantly, why are we winless when we score less than 4 runs? The answer is simple. Bad defense (especially in the OF but all around when Giambi is at 1B) and bad starting pitching. The offense is scoring a little over 5 runs a game, but sadly, the team has been giving up about 5 runs a game as well. That is why we are .500 right now. I'm not really sure how much effect Torre has on the performance of the starting staff, but I am guessing not much.

I also have another theory on why we stink so much. We have absolutely NO team chemistry. I don't know what happened to it. It was there last year. It showed with all those come-from-behind wins last year. I believe a rift has formed in the clubhouse between the old guard and the new high-profile FAs, or A-Rod's guys rather. It started this offseason I believe. Rather than resigning A-Rod's buddy Olerud, the Yankees brought Tino back in. George sat down with A-Rod and told him to lead and stop worrying about what others in the clubhouse think. Then no one but Bernie defended A-Rod while the Red Sox players verbally thrashed him. I just don't see a close team here at all. If Torre doesn't control the team's pulse anymore, than I think that is why. Too many huge egos to handle. Too many malcontents or prima donnas. Not enough respect for the old guard which used to dominate the clubhouse.

[Lynch]

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Two trips to the WS and four division titles?! Yah, I wouldn't stand for that!

Fire his ass!!!!





Maybe you need to go back and look at how much you enjoyed 1982-1995 for a reminder of how bad you guys really have it right now. Where's Stump Merrill when ya need him.

Sorry RLA, but I think that the spoils for the late 90's have distorted yer perception a little. JM2CW.

[General]

Torre ain't the problem. He might be fired, but that won't solve anything.

[Veovis]

It figures that after I say Bernie and Womack are sapping our offense they break a tie game in the 9th inning and give us a 4 run lead...

[RLA68]

Yes, he was the skipper behind a great run 1995 to 2001 bascially.

Since 2002, we have added several big time stars. The expectations have increased.

No one denies that it was great the 4 World Titles and 6 pennants but is he currently motivating the players? It does truly come down to what have you have done for me lately. Winning a division is not enough or just making the playoffs. The payroll has skyrocketed the last 5 years and the tools have been given to Torre to win. This is not a 1982-1993 issue. We have the tools to win.

BTW 1994 we had the best record in the A.L. at the strike and 1995 we made the playoffs. 11 years was the drought. Nothing for most franchises but the expectations are higher in the Bronx.

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Two trips to the WS and four division titles?! Yah, I wouldn't stand for that!

Fire his ass!!!!





Maybe you need to go back and look at how much you enjoyed 1982-1995 for a reminder of how bad you guys really have it right now. Where's Stump Merrill when ya need him.

Sorry RLA, but I think that the spoils for the late 90's have distorted yer perception a little. JM2CW.

[Veovis]

I disagree. Torre does not have the tools to win, and he has been handed a starting staff which is as brittle as Randy Johnson is old. He has been handed a starting staff which is incapable of pitching quality starts. That isn't Torre's fault. I have never heard of a manager effecting the ability of a starting staff, except in the case of over use. Torre has certainly not done that. Torre can't motivate the team to play better in the field. He can't motivate Bernie to all of a sudden regain his lost skills in CF. The team is old. The defense is porous. Motivation can't help those things.

[Saber]

damn straight

[RLA68]

Feel free to back up your argument with stats or facts.

Facts-
Yankees lead the league in allowing unearned runs.
Yankees are 1-27 in games that they score less than 3 runs.
Yankees have 18 come from behind wins compared to 31 last year at this time.
Yankees have 99 HRs coming into today's game on pace for about 200 compared to the 242 we had last year.

Moose is 8-5 with a 4.06 ERA
Unit is 7-6 4.24 ERA 12 of 17 quality starts. At least 6 innings and less than 5 runs.
Pavano is 4-6 with a 4.77 ERA and only 8 of 17 quality starts. At least 6 innings pitched and allowed less than 5 runs.
Wright who is injured was 2-2 with a 9.15 ERA.

Unit was 16-14 record in 2004 2.60 ERA and 290 K's.
Pavano was 18-8 with a 3.00 ERA in 2004.

Are you going to tell me that everyone is playing up to their potential?

I disagree. Torre does not have the tools to win, and he has been handed a starting staff which is as brittle as Randy Johnson is old. He has been handed a starting staff which is incapable of pitching quality starts. That isn't Torre's fault. I have never heard of a manager effecting the ability of a starting staff, except in the case of over use. Torre has certainly not done that. Torre can't motivate the team to play better in the field. He can't motivate Bernie to all of a sudden regain his lost skills in CF. The team is old. The defense is porous. Motivation can't help those things.

[RLA68]

Further evidence that people are not playing at to their ability?

7-6 in 1 run games
2-2 in extra inning games

vs Tampa Bay 3-7
vs KC 0-3 (Johnson, Pavano, and Mussina all lost)

Maybe I am off base but I am thinking all of the team meetings including those called by the Boss are because the expectations are there for a better performance.

[love_that_reefer]

And that is Torre's fault how? You are reaching my friend. Again I have 12 million reasons why Torre will not be fired.

[HuskerFan2002]

I don't believe Torre should be fired...yet. He hasn't had a losing season as a Yankee manager. Does it make any sense to fire a guy who's team is struggling for the first time in years? I'm a firm believer that he should stay with the Yankees for another year and if there's another losing season, fire him.

[RLA68]

I have 200 million reasons along with the highest expectations we have had in at least 5 years.

He is the manager and therefore the motivator.

And that is Torre's fault how? You are reaching my friend. Again I have 12 million reasons why Torre will not be fired.

[RLA68]

This is not the Cubs we are talking about. The Yankees expect to not only win but go far into the playoffs. A 100+ win season and division title has been a disappointment more than once in the last 3 years. Not to mention just winning pennants have also not sat well with the Boss.

I don't believe Torre should be fired...yet. He hasn't had a losing season as a Yankee manager. Does it make any sense to fire a guy who's team is struggling for the first time in years? I'm a firm believer that he should stay with the Yankees for another year and if there's another losing season, fire him.

[love_that_reefer]

Motivation only goes so far. None of these problems are Torre caused problems. Torre has done nothing wrong to this popint to say this is any of his fault. Most of these problems were somehwat foreseeable. George has only himself to blame. Without Torre the Yanks are what gonna win the whole thing?

[RLA68]

I am not saying that we can get Joe McCarthy or Casey Stengal for another tour as Yankee manager or even give Billy Martin a try.

All I am saying is that shaking things up has been done over and over with lineups and even positioning. If a manager does not make a difference explain the KC Royals playing well with their new skipper. Explain all of the other instances where a manager taken the same talent and gotten more out of them.

Torre did some very special things with a group that really did not have any superstars from 1996 to 2001. Since 2002, I have not felt (and I am not the Boss nor do I work for the Yankees) that he has not gotten everything out of them. We obviously upgraded pitching with Johnson, Pavano, and Wright over what we had in 2004. Yes, CF is a known issue but name me any team that does not have more than one weakness. This 200 million dollar team should be able to overcome that.