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You think Santana's going to flop?Originally Posted by Dry1313
You think Santana's going to flop?
Stats? I have to back up stats to say I don't like the signing of Pettitte for the money he made? Pettitte was another aged veteran signing just like Damon was. His contract for a #3 starter should be proof enough. Sorry but I thought it was a poor signing with no future or immediate value. Damon is nothing but an overpriced DH. His arm makes me laugh every time I see him throw. The Yankees kept getting older and for some reason weren't getting past the first round. My opinion of Pettitte and everyone else I mention have a lot of merit. Even Randy Johnson won 15 games for the Yankees, doesn't mean it was a good pickup. Pettitte leading the team with 140 SOs should tell you how poorly this franchise is being run.
Santana is still one of the best sp in the game! Your telling me thay you would rather take Harden or Santana? If thats the case your a fool. See the deal with the Red Soxs is we either get Lester or Ellsburry plus 3 or 4 more good prospects. So one player will still be playing for the Soxs. We have alot of mlb ready pitching sitting in AAA. Blackburn/Baker to name a few.
I am not saying your not a playoff team, I am saying you wont get by the RedSoxs is all.
KBSL - Atlanta Hawks
Arizona gm - MSL
I will say this now as well. I think the Twins will be a playoff team. When nathan is traded and we get the final piece a starting 3rd baseman or dh that can hit for power and drive in runs we will be in the thick of the playoffs. Lester or Ellsbury will help us in a big way.
KBSL - Atlanta Hawks
Arizona gm - MSL
Nope, it looks like Lester/Crisp and 2 prospects or Ellsbury and 2 prospects...if you ask me the Twins are geting hosed there.
Hughes>>>Lester
Melky>>Crisp
And I don't know much about the other spects in the deal, but I highly doubt they have enough value over whoever the Yankees third player would be to make the difference.
I did a lot of good things as a sim league GM.
Ah, give me something clever to say here.
Clemens- EVERYBODY loves to bash this signing. But guess what?
a) We had the money to do it and it was only for one year
b) If we didn't have him pitching average...WHO THE HELL WOULD WE START? You want us not to sign him and start Clippard? DeSalvo? Igawa? These guys were all terrible! At least Clemens gave us some respectability!
Damon - One great year, one not so great, the jury's still out on him
Farnsworth - agreed
Villone - How was that a piss poor signing...he barely cost us anything and gave us a pretty good performance, especially considering we didn't expect much at all out of him
Pettitte - hahahaha...good joke
So you're telling me...not to mention the money they threw around on retaining their own FAs.
They shouldn't have re-signed Posada, and started Jose Molina at catcher?
They shouldn't have re-signed Rivera, put Chamberlain at closer, weakened the bullpen dramatically, removed an effective SP from the rotation, and given Mike Mussina a full-time slot after last season?
They shouldn't have re-signed A-Rod, and started WILSON BETEMIT at third?
Interesting.
Well, considering the Sox are getting Santana, and the A's want more than that for Haren...you're wrong.And it looks like all that hard work of building a farm system is to be wasted on getting either Santana or Haren.
Change "could" to "will"The Yankees could have a really good team in a couple of years
Right, which is why we've traded all that young talent...Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Wang, Horne, Jackson, Tabata, Cano, Cabrera, Marquez, Cox, Melancon...oh wait...but Steinbrenner and the Yankees brass just can't wait that long so they will keep making the same mistakes that haven't won them a thing since 2000. Yankees need to go back to what won them 4 of 5 WS titles and that's developing their young talent and not spending so ******* much just to spend it.
I did a lot of good things as a sim league GM.
Ah, give me something clever to say here.
Goodness. What a battleground this has turned into.
Look, if the Sox want to shell out 100+ million to Santanamania, they can. Offer him the six years it will take to get him. We'll see how it turns out.
If history has taught us anything though, the playoffs are a crap shoot. If Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz could only win one World Series why should we be handing over trophies to the Red Sox already? Paper people. They're great on paper.
And goodness, the deal isn't struck yet! It probably is just as likely that Santana stays with Minnesota as it is he goes to Boston.
Edit: And as of now, I am very comfortable going into next year with the same team that was the best in baseball for the last four months of the season, except now with more innings of the Big Three - that can only be a good thing.
Epstein was going to up the deal. Another player was going to be added to the deal in either direction we (Twins) decide to go. I do Like Hughes but I think Lester is a better fit.
KBSL - Atlanta Hawks
Arizona gm - MSL
Clemens gave you repectability? Wow, how many games does that win? Apparently not a lot. Clemens was yet another signing that did nothing for the future of the club.
Damon's jury is in. He was a poor defending OFer who was coming into the decline of his career and we have seen that. He is a DH on a team filled with DHs.
Villone- was no good to begin with and again he was a aged veteran past his prime.
Pettitte- I know the signing was a big joke. All that money for a number three starter coming off a bad year in the "lesser" league. Again, if he led the team in SO's then it wasn't much of a rotation
They should have resigned Posada but not at the price and years in the deal. And they just gave Molina $2 mil/yr.If Posada didn't take, the Yankees could have found a catcher elsewhere.
Chamberlain could have filled the closer spot like Paplebon and the bullpen was already weak so nothing would really change. Rivera could go get his money and years elsewhere. No one knows if Chamberlain will be a good starting pitcher after being a reliever but we do know how good he was as a reliever. Mussina will have a spot in the rotation and if not, he will be the most expensive 6th inning guy in the history of the game which would make my point as t why they are poorly run.
Why do you keep thinking the Yankees could find replacements elsehwere? They should have stuck to their word and not renegotiated with Arod and let some other teams be the sucker. Oh wait! No other team was dumb enough
If they actually wise up and not trade for these guys, then I'm wrong. Until then, they are still in Santana, Haren and Bedard talks and even more so if the Sox do in fact get Santana.
Sorry but we will have to see what happens.
Nope, not yet
Listen you list all the shit you please but it will not change my mind that this team has been poorly run the past few seasons. The results are there. These aren't even close to the teams that brought them success in the 90's. Veovis knows how I feel and he knows that I want the Yankees to keep these young guys.
Maybe because the Red Sox just won their second WS in four seasons and will only get better even without Santana.
I also wouldn't expect more innings from the big three. Young guys are just unpredictable. Hughes pulled a hamstring throwing a no-hitter. Who saw that coming?
Not in the first two or three years, but by year six, whoa dandy will he suck.
Andy Pettite threw 200 innings buddy...he also was better than a #3 starter this year anyway.
140 SOs is not bad for leading our team, considering our ace (y'know, the 19 game winner) is a ground ball pitcher, not powerful at all.
And isn't it stupid to say that Andy Pettite sucks because he only won 15 games for the Yankees, and then say the Yankees suck? Pick a side and stick to it. Either the Yankees are bad and poorly run or Pettite had a good year. THEY ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE (fyi, Pettite had as good of a year as DicK)
I'd rather have Santana, but for the current asking price I want neither.
Baker sucks. We've all seen what he can do, and it impressed no one. I like him, and he could become a bulldog, but he's nothing better than a #3.
The Red Sox have beat us in a post season series in the past 10 years ONCE. The bigger deal is breaking the first round.
All excellent points.
Perfect...Veovis, +rep, you are a sick poster and I hope you stay around for the Yankee season this year.
You need to look at the facts. We've had a lot of poor signings but to call a team which has madre the playoffs every year since '95 "poorly run" is ****ing retarded.Clemens gave you repectability? Wow, how many games does that win? Apparently not a lot. Clemens was yet another signing that did nothing for the future of the club.
Damon's jury is in. He was a poor defending OFer who was coming into the decline of his career and we have seen that. He is a DH on a team filled with DHs.
Villone- was no good to begin with and again he was a aged veteran past his prime.
Pettitte- I know the signing was a big joke. All that money for a number three starter coming off a bad year in the "lesser" league. Again, if he led the team in SO's then it wasn't much of a rotation
They should have resigned Posada but not at the price and years in the deal. And they just gave Molina $2 mil/yr.
Chamberlain could have filled the closer spot like Paplebon and the bullpen was already weak so nothing would really change. Rivera could go get his money and years elsewhere. No one knows if Chamberlain will be a good starting pitcher after being a reliever but we do know how good he was as a reliever. Mussina will have a spot in the rotation no matter what.
Why do you keep thinking the Yankees could find replacements elsehwere? They should have stuck to their word and not renegotiated with Arod and let some other teams be the sucker. Oh wait! No other team was dumb enough
If they actually wise up and not trade for these guys, then I'm wrong. Until then, they are still in Santana, Haren and Bedard talks and even more so if the Sox do in fact get Santana.
Sorry but we will have to see what happens.
Nope, not yet
Listen you list all the shit you please but it will not change my mind that this team has been poorly run the past few seasons. These aren't even close to the teams that brought them success in the 90's.Veovis knows how I feel and he knows that I want the Yankees to keep these young guys.
Want to see poorly run? Look at the Giants.
It's a process man, and we are saying that we want the process so we can have our own homegrown aces who have ceilings as high as any under 25 starter in the ML.
That's all. To already say "well we don't know what will happen," you'd have to apply that both ways, and look at Santana's Andy Pettite like season, and try and tell me there isn't a very distinct possiblity that it won't happen again.
I never said the Yankees sucked, I said they are poorly run, there's a difference. And compared to how they were when they were winning titles, I am dead on balls accurate. Yankees have a different mentality. Yankees fans cry all damn day that they haven't won anything in 7 seasons. Then the Yankees fire Joe Torre as the scapegoat. But they keep making the same mistakes over and over and eventually get older and older trying to win for one year. I know this all too well because the Giants have been doing it too. Getting Pettitte and Clemens were key parts to this win now mentality that got them nowhere.
I know my facts perfectly well so please stop telling me to check them. Just because you disagree with my OPINION has nothing to do with the facts. Pettitte threw 200 innings and so did a lot of other pitcher who weren't that great, buddy. And yes from a #4 type starter that would be good but doesn't win you anything. Yes making the playoffs 12 straight seasons is remarkable but it isn't good enough for the Yankees or their fans. If it were any other team it would OK but no one has higher standards than the Steinbrenners and the Yankees brass. You don't have to tell me the Giants have been poorly run. I know that all to well and I also know the Yankees were doing the exact same thing, playing for one year and getting older in the process.
I am all for the Yankees keeping their young talent and being smart about their FA signings. I don't want them to trade for Johan, Haren or Bedard. That said I wouldn't expect to go to the playoffs in 08 with a rotation of Wang, Hughes, Pettitte, Chamberlain, Mussina, Kennedy or whoever else. '09 would be a more realistic shot at the playoffs.
The 08 rotation as it is comprised is better than last year's one though, so why wouldn't you expect a playoff berth?
I did a lot of good things as a sim league GM.
Ah, give me something clever to say here.
I don't expect Hughes, Kennedy or Chamberlain to stay consistent enough through their first full season and the bullpen as of now is still shaky. Chamberlain is the one to really watch. Again, this is just my opinion.
Gotta admit though, it is going to be a tough ride to the playoffs next year, even if the rotation is better. This mega-trade for the Tigers is going to make that offense near as formidable as our own. The race for the playoffs is going to be intense.
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