Torre turns down Yankees

[love_that_reefer]

Overrated? Absolute bullshit! Go look at those teams and the "talent" he had to work with. No manager can win without good talent which Torre had none. Those Mets teams that you talk of was when the farm system produced great players like Strawberry, Gooden, Mitchell, Dykstra. They weren't there for Torre. What about those Braves teams that overachieved for Torre? How about those terrible Cardinal teams he had to put up with. After he left, the owners extended their payroll and went out and got guys like Eckersley, Stottlemyre and Ron Gant. It's just a mystery what happens when teams have real talent. Players love this guy and he is a smart man but no one can win without talent and Joe had none of it before coming to the Yankees with great farm guys like Jeter, Rivera, Posada and Pettitte.

[perforatededge54]

Managers don't win ballgames. Torre is a loss and, undoubtedly, was treated with enormous disrespect. However the fact of the matter is, it's up the players to win games.

[Lance324]

No manager can win without good talent which Torre had none.

How about Tony Pena and the 2003 KC Royals? Had one or two guys that were decent, but that's it. Granted they didn't win the division or anything, but they were over .500 and had almost no talent (Beltran and Sweeney excluded).

Those terrible Cardinal teams, you make me laugh. Todd Zeile, Ozzie Smith, Ray Lankford, Greg Jeffries, Brian Jordan, Joe Magrane, Lee Smith, Bob Tewksbury, Rick Sutcliffe, Ken Hill. Granted they weren't all there in the same year, but most of them were. I know the Cardinals added some key pieces right after Torre left, but I do recall those Torre led Cardinals as being called "huge dissappointments" at the time.

We can discuss this all we want, but it's a moot point. We'll see just how good he is in the future. From what I've read he wants to manage again and somebody will give him a contract for sure, then he'll get the chance to prove how good he is.

[love_that_reefer]

Yes those legendary players you mentioned for the Cardinals You forgot to mention aces like Donovan Osborne and Allen Watson. These were terrible unbalanced teams that he managed to get over .500. Look what happened when he took over. He took teams with those mediocre players you just mentioned exluding the Oz and got them into contention. Why bring up Pena? It only makes my point. They had a team of mediocrity and he helped bring them together to make noise in the Central. Then they traded away the "talent" and left him with nothing. Managers can't win without talent. Clint Hurdle is a great example.