Settle a bet

[zodious]

This trade WILL NOT happen. Neither side wants this trade... But in this trade, who's getting screwed?

Chi Sox give:
SS Johnny Pesky 21 years old 9-8-2-10-10 talent
2040 first round pick (#1 overall pick)

Chi Cubs give:
SP Joseph Mangino 25 years old 9-7-7 actuals 10-7-8 talent 98-100 mph

As soon as this turns to a flame fest delete it. I want actual debate or just an answer of which team is getting hosed.

[Prez WilCo]

To me its not who's getting screwed. I just think in the TC it would be vetoed. So my ? Is would it get vetoed?

[Sabu88]

White Sox (edit. Are the ones getting screwed)

[Impossibles]

hitter @ premium position >> pitcher

[OrioleMagic]

Yes it would get vetoed. Man-gina is a young #2 SP, IMHO. His career ERA after nearly 6 seasons is 4.78. He is not an Ace and arguably is not a #2.

The #1 pick in the draft is worth more alone IMHO.

I'd argue that Pesky by himself is worth more. Pesky has risk due to lack of development yet, but I project him to be a everyday #2 hitter, or even a #1 w/o the base-stealing skills, and possibly an All-Star due to the combo of 9 contact, 10 eye, and 10 avoid k's.

Mangina is mediocre and a classic example of getting caught up in the main ratings w/o considering other metrics.

[HollywoodLeo]

Sometimes I wonder if ratings if even matter when I see guys like Terry Pennington in HSL post a 6+ ERA.

[OrioleMagic]

hitter @ premium position >> pitcher

I personally think this is too broad of a statement. Would you rather have a 10-8-2-10-10 CF/SS/2B/C or a 10-9-10 SP? I think you have to look deeper. It's a tough call, but for me the question is how can I get the most OOTP impact out of one slot?

I think an SP gets the edge, because an Ace can shut down X hitters over X innings. A hitter can 1. get on base (high OBP), 1a. steal once on base, and/or 2. hit for power (still needs someone on base to maximize his value) It's just the nature of offense vs. pitching.

But none of this is simple.

BTW, I love to see these discussions. Reminds me of a couple years ago when there would be discussion on which pitcher is better A: 10-6-10, B: 6-10-10, or C: 10-10-6??????

[Slyder]

hitter @ premium position >> pitcher

No amount of offense ever wins without the pitching to back it up. A top flight pitcher>hitter in a vacuum.

[HollywoodLeo]

i'd prefer 10-6-10.

[OrioleMagic]

So who wanted to do this trade, and who pulled the plug on it?

[Trendy Bastard]

The trade definitely favors the Cubs and would have been vetoed in my opinion.

With the draft classes we've had the past couple seasons, the number one pick alone outweighs the career long struggling Mangino.

[Slyder]

i personally think this is too broad of a statement. Would you rather have a 10-8-2-10-10 cf/ss/2b/c or a 10-9-10 sp? I think you have to look deeper. It's a tough call, but for me the question is how can i get the most ootp impact out of one slot?

I think an sp gets the edge, because an ace can shut down x hitters over x innings. A hitter can 1. Get on base (high obp), 1a. Steal once on base, and/or 2. Hit for power (still needs someone on base to maximize his value) it's just the nature of offense vs. Pitching.

But none of this is simple.

Btw, i love to see these discussions. Reminds me of a couple years ago when there would be discussion on which pitcher is better a: 10-6-10, b: 6-10-10, or c: 10-10-6??????

b.

[zodious]

So who wanted to do this trade, and who pulled the plug on it?

Wilco and were trying to figure out TC value of different players. Wuxi felt the TC values pitching above all else. He said, "You could give your your first round pick and pesky and it would still fail thinking I'm not getting enough" so I challenged him and posted.

I would never do that trade, but the issue of value has been the talk for a few weeks now and thought it'd be interesting to see.

OM I too love the debates and that's why I keep posting these lol

For me, I'd like a SP to be 10-10-6 and a MR to be 6-10-10 lol

[OrioleMagic]

OM I too love the debates and that's why I keep posting these lol

For me, I'd like a SP to be 10-10-6 and a MR to be 6-10-10 lol

Ok... Why?? What stat does stuff generally translate to? What stat does control generally translate to? and what stat does movement generally translate to? Do you still stand by your bolded statement?

[zodious]

One thing i've found most interesting is how much past performances has been discussed.