Was Santana Robbed?

[nyjunc]

Damn Nyjunk. He did not deserve it. Please then why did billy wagner not win the nl cy young? Wagner is the elite closer. Again go post that crap where your yankee talk will be welcomed there. How many more people do you need to hear it from that Mariano did not deserve it!!!!!!!

In the Nl there were big time starters who had great years and Wagner did not have the year Mariano did.

[mntwinsfan]

In the Nl there were big time starters who had great years and Wagner did not have the year Mariano did.

ok.. I gave the wrong name of the closer what about chad cordero? 47 saves 1.82 era.

Bob Wickman and Francisco Rodriguez both had more saves in the al. SO my thing is because he is a freaking yankee that is the main reason is was in for voting.

Joe Nathan had the same amount of saves.

[General]

Yeah, but Mariano was the most dominant closer.

[Lynch]

Thus he deserves an award for most dominant closer. Closers do NOT deserve to be in conversation with Starters when talks of Cy Young awards start up. I don't care how damn dominant you are.

Same mentality applies when it comes to starting pitchers who some think should be considered for league MVP. I don't care if a guy wins 25+ games and has an ERA under 2.0, he only plays every 5 days. With those numbers, obviously he's going to be a top candidate for Cy Young (and would most likely win it), but you can't take MVP away from the everyday player and give it to a guy who works 15-20% of the time.

[Fishercat]

I agree with Lynch in terms of Cy Young regarding RP and SP. I cannot remember a real situation where a RP has been so damn dominant and had enough IP to cancel out any competition. Really, was Gagne's 2003 season (82 1/3 IP, 1.2 ERA, 15 K/9) that much better than even his own BP mate Mota (105 IP, 2.0 ERA), nevermind Jason Schmidt (207 2/3 IP, 2.34 ERA)?

In terms of SP and the MVP...I don't know how much I agree. I do believe that an elite hitter/fielder/runner is typically more valuable than an elite pitcher. However, even though an SP only plays 1/5 the time of a position player, isn't hit job more important to a major extent. On offense, even the the greatest player can only have a direct impact (baserunning included) on 4 plays (1 if you only count his AB) (hit AB, and the next three) for every 9, and more often than not for everyone not named Barry Bonds, only one out of 9. The pitcher is involved in every play when he pitches, 9/9 AB per round until he is removed (he does have a hitting impact in the NL, but typically, it's not THAT significant).

I can understand the argument, but the even though the pitcher is in 1/5 of the game of position player, pitcher has a huge impact relative to position player in that game. It's kind of like, would you rather have a customer who buys 5 dollars worth of merchanise Monday through Friday, or a customer who buys 25 dollars worth of merchandise on Wednesday? Is it really that different? Although I do prefer to give the MVP to hitters simply because a good, all-around player (which an MVP usually is with superb hitting credentials) will have worth in running and hitting, two qualities pitchers don't usually have

[mntwinsfan]

cordero had more saves. why was he not in the or on the ballot? dont agree either way, rp should have there own awards. Like the Rolaids award they used to do.

[nyjunc]

ok.. I gave the wrong name of the closer what about chad cordero? 47 saves 1.82 era.

Bob Wickman and Francisco Rodriguez both had more saves in the al. SO my thing is because he is a freaking yankee that is the main reason is was in for voting.

Joe Nathan had the same amount of saves.

Again, Cordero is in the NL where there were great SP candidates, there were not slam dunk SP candidtaes in the AL and by the way pitching in the NL is alot easier than pitching in the AL.

Saves is not the stat, the saves were close btw the top closers but look at the dominance. Mariano gave up ONE Earned run on the road.

Mariano: 7-4, 1.38 ERA, 43 saves, .87 WHIP
Cordero: 2-4, 1.82 ERA, 47 saves .97 WHIP
Wickman: 0-4, 2.47 ERA, 45 saves, 1.41 WHIP(It's laughable you even mentioned him w/ the others)
Rodriguez: 2-5, 2.67 ERA, 45 saves, 1.14 ERA
Street: 5-1, 1.72 ERA, 23 saves, 1.01 WHIP

No closer is close to Marinao, the closest in all ctaegories is Cordero but even he is not close. Mariano was by far the best reliever and I believe deserved the CY w/ a weak crop of SPs.