Was Santana Robbed?

[Fishercat]

Some would be willing to argue that Rivera either wasn't by far or wasn't the best relief pitcher in the AL, nevermind best pitcher.

For me, a RP has to be astronomically better than the top SP (and by that, I mean Gagne/Eck caliber stuff, and that's a maybe) to justify getting the Cy Young with as low as 1/3 of the innins.

Just because Rivera got the luck to be placed on a team that wouldn't have made the playoffs without him (or Gordon, or Johnson, or Mussina, or Sheffield, or Rodriguez, or Jeter, or etc.) and Santana had the "luck" to be placed on a team that couldn't hit and had no support behind him. Just think, if he got three wins during his 23 IP, 3 run stretch over 3 games, he'd be 19-7. The team argument sucks, and is even worse when you're looking for best pitcher, not "most valuable" ().

"I remmeber hearing that Clemns would win 25 w/ the Yankee O in '99 and he won 14 and that RJ would win 20 easily w/ the Yankee bats behind him and he won 17."

That's because for the first half of the baseball season, RJ pitched at the same caliber of Matt Clement, and not of Randy Johnson. If he won 17 with an ERA of 3.79, and Santana won 16 with an ERA of 2.87, it shows the value of a good offense. FWIW, Johnson had 5.62 Runs of Support when he pitched (good for 18th in baseball). Johan Santana almost had a full run less (ironically, almost the same distance between their ERAs), and he was 24th in baseball...among pitchers from age 21 to 27. 58th overall.

[Providence A's]

Yes, he was. And so will Clemens according to many. I would have been happy if Santana one, but I'll be angry if Clemens wins. I hate that guy.

[love_that_reefer]

• Did Colon deserve it?
• Did Rivera deserve 2nd place?
• Did the White Sox pitchers get ZERO respect?
• Should Santana have won it?

No, No, No, Yes

[Fishercat]

It won't be as bad if Clemens doesn't win. The difference between Johan and Colon is so vast (on a relative scale for awards), that someone who isn't Carpenter, Pettitte, Willis, Martinez, or Oswalt would have to get it for it to be as bad.

And really, if any of the first three on that list get it, I'm not going to be angry. I like Carpenter (high school alum, great story), Pettitte (the ignored transfer pitcher), and Willis (exciting).

[love_that_reefer]

Clemens stole it last year so doesn't need another one.

[General]

Lynch..

Second place is only the first loser.

[DirtyKash]

No, last place is the first loser. Second place is the last loser. Better second than third or nothing at all.

[nyjunc]

Uh huh, it's Santana's fault that he was 16-7.

He was 2nd in the league in ERA and had the most K's by a wide margain. You can't give the Cy Young to a guy who pitches just 78.1 innings. Either way, a dominant starter is more important than a lights out closer.

No it's not his fault but those are the breaks. You can give it to a dominant closer who had a great year whewn no SP had a lights out year. mariano gave up ONE Eraned run on the road this year- ONE!

You say a dominant starter is more important than a lights out closer well the Yaks didn't have any dominant starters this year and trotted out over 10 SP's yet the constant was Mariano. Santana deserved it last year and had he won this year I wouldn't complain as much as w/ Colon but Mariano deserved it over any of them.

[love_that_reefer]

I disagree 100%.

[Lynch]

I don't even like the fact that some closers are even considered in Cy Young talks. Cy Young himself was a starting pitcher. It's a SP award. As MF87 said, you can't compare a guy who pitches 80 innings with a guy that pitches 230+ innings.

If someone wants to come up with the Rolaids/Tums/Maylox Reliever of teh Year award, then by all means, I throw Rivera at the top of the list this year. But to compare his 1 inning pitched per outting to a guy who averages 6 innings per outting is ludicrous. If Rivera was that damn incredible of a pitcher, he'd be a starter, not a reliever. That comment doesn't reflect how dominant of a RP he is, but he's obviously not qualified to play the SP role, thus he and any other reliever should never even be considered for the CY award.




(and for anyone who may have problems with Junc coming in here and thumping Rivera, he's being a homer as should be expected, but he's not being out of line at all in his comments. So don't give him grief over his opinion).

[mntwinsfan]

Damn Nyjunk. He did not deserve it. Please then why did billy wagner not win the nl cy young? Wagner is the elite closer. Again go post that crap where your yankee talk will be welcomed there. How many more people do you need to hear it from that Mariano did not deserve it!!!!!!!

[mntwinsfan]

come on lynch.. I got bashed more than once in the Yankee room, and now your posting this? Maybe you could have posted the thread in both rooms then see what would happen. I dont agree with your post. ( i never told him to leave the room) just thought he would get the answer he is seeking in the Yankees chat.

[General]

MN, you gotta chill out, dude.

PS: This is a forum, not a chat.

[Lynch]

MNTF: Big difference is that I don't run the yankees forum. If ya feel mistreated or bashed over there, the best thing to do is report it, to me, to the NYY Forum mod, to one of the admins. All I was saying is that NYJ wasn't rude or out of line. The worst thing anyone could accuse him of doing was being a homer and if he's not rude about it, I'm certainly not going to ask him to shut up.


BTW: I don't normally visit the yankee board (other than occassionally). I didn't see whatever it is you are talking about.

[mntwinsfan]

really general? God I did not know that. nvm i cant say what I want to say.