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A long, winding OOTP road. Part 1.

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16 years ago, I began dabbling in sim leagues. At that time, the craze on the internet was more so basketball. NBA Live 97, 98, and 99 were spectacles, particularly on the PC. Then more complex games or simulators started coming out, many are what you could compare to OOTP nowadays. I even ran several, some went for 10 plus seasons, which was a big deal then. Everything changed when OOTP started gaining steam. Then 6.0 and 6.5 happened. Things would never be the same again.

I think I have been doing OOTP leagues since about 2003-2004 range. Hell, my reason for even first coming to BS or as it was known then,, was to join sim leagues. S3SL was the first I joined on these forums. I progressed to eventually being in every league. And then when we decided to be a home for OrioleMagic's leagues, I became apart of them as well. When you really get into these things, they're addictive. They truly are. Once you have a good grasp and feel of how any OOTP game works, it's even better. You know you are addicted when menial things that are not real, have no bearing to your life in any way shape or form, can piss you off so much. Random talent losses to players entering their primes, career enders, fluky outcomes to games or playoff series…it burns you. Yet you keep coming back for me. When you comb through the report pages, staring at ratings, staring at statistics, staring at past statistics, you try pushing yourself to a point where you try to figure things out and beat the system. Like counting cards in poker. But then you realize, no matter how much you think you may know, you end up not truly knowing.

But when do you know that maybe too much is not a good thing? When there is constant frustration and frequent negative views of how a league is running, when that which is not real, really upsets you. There is a growing amount of poor sportsmanship. Yes, it has lost some plate/eye. The control has suffered. Why? If I knew this answer, things might be different. But I have no idea. I would like to know why there is such a growing lack of return communication. I would like to know why favoritism has to exist. And why would anyone even begin to cheat at something that only produces internet results and no gain financially. I ask these things over and over, and only see them getting worse and worse. It's frustrating. It's long been maddening. I understand some folks are more comfortable trading with others. That's going to be with anyone and everyone. But to spurn a better offer, better deal, or even the very simple idea of responding to an offer, just to do a deal with someone you know, can drive you up a wall. When folks resort to making duplicate accounts to be able to swindle a certain player from a team, it leaves you wondering. What the Hell are we doing? How can people be so stupid or so pathetic, when these leagues are created for our entertainment, amusement, for…… FUN! Fun doesn't really exist anymore. These days, I cannot imagine running a sim league. I cannot image the mess that Trendy Bastard had to walk into to bridge the gap between himself and OrioleMagic. I cannot imagine how Providence A's can put up with people constantly bitching to him about trades not passing, to the point that he one day had to create a rule to curb that. And I cannot imagine Molina00 running a league since the beginning of time. More power to them all. More power to Porter starting up a radical idea, a league that isn't 6.5, and having to deal with all of our confusions.

Guess that's why I would never run a league again. Cause I can barely stand things now as just a GM.
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  1. Porter's Avatar
    I have a little CrazyEights in me when it comes to running a league. I never thought id run a league again after HH2003. I've always had respect for guys that commished a long time because the stress my old league brought me. My vision at the time was more than I could handle. OOTP 8 is in my wheelhouse and I think if I took over MSL it wouldn't be good fit. I think 6.5 would have been too simple for my liking. I do have other things in mind when you guys in PSL get the hang of things.
  2. HollywoodLeo's Avatar
    I agree with the majority of your complaints here, but I don't think the issue regarding trading with familiar partners and familiar partners only is as big as you make it out to be.

    Stoney is one of the biggest "culprits" in that complaint. But I put "culprit" in quotations because it took me all of 20 minutes to get in contact with him and all of another two hours to make a deal with him (Only because I had to wait for him to get off work).

    All I had to do? Contact him on AIM, which you scoff at. If you don't expand your availability you're not going to be as available for trade partners.
  3. Trendy Bastard's Avatar
    Totally understand where you're coming from. But whose creating duplicate accounts?

    Honestly, running HSL hasn't been too much of a pain. I'm still very much enjoying it (and still getting the hang of it). Believe me, the day I stop enjoying it is the day I'll either pass it on, or shut it down.
  4. Providence A's's Avatar
    I'm terrible.
  5. Kingdom's Avatar
    I disagree with you Leo. But that tends to happen often. If you can't respond to a simple message on a site you're logging into for sim leagues anyways..then..whatever. I shouldn't have to go to lengths when WE ALL USE THIS SITE FOR SIM LEAGUES. What do you not understand about that Leo? Seriously. I don't want AIM. I don't want to use Facebook for a sim league. Use the God Damned private messages that exist on this...SITE THAT EVERYONE USES FOR THIS FORUMS.

    Stoney wasn't my issue with that. I'm not getting into names. It's not worth getting into anymore. There's hardly any respect or courtesy in these things.

    You're far from terrible. Unless you meant your breath, PA.
  6. Kingdom's Avatar
    Trendy- it's not actually an issue right now. Hopefully it doesn't present as an issue any further. I can't even be 100% sure someone made a duplicate, but all indications and evidence points to that being a good possibility. Really all we can do right now is watch how things play out but like I said, it doesn't effect HSL. That's why I am keeping it quiet right now between a few mods until we can be sure one way or the other.

    Now, in the past, we were all plagued by the Bon Bon situation. Hooboy.
  7. Providence A's's Avatar
    It's definitely not as fun as it used to be. I guess fake life (sim leagues) is like real life...nothing lasts forever or stays the same. Things always change and not always for the better. It's just different.

    I guess I'm the opposite of Porter. For my own sanity and simplicities sake, I'll like to keep it real simple and streamlined in my league. It's not meant to be a "I can't bother" type thing or to cripple people from doing everything they want to. It's meant to keep it simple for everyone, fair for everyone, and fun...not complicated.

    I just don't have the time necessary to really go at it in his OOTP 8 league. I feel like I'm just trading water trying to keep my team full. I'm sure downloading the game and exporting would help, but I just can't be bothered with it. Being in 3 leagues and running 1 league is time consuming.
  8. Kingdom's Avatar
    Well if JC proves anything tonight.....everything just pretty much sucks. I even attempted to bring peace between he and OM, and his response was "I didn't bother reading what you said". Hey, awesome. I am very seriously contemplating leaving every league. What the Hell is the point anymore?

    I would give the league a chance, PA. It's just hard to adjust from something you've known so well. The newer games are very interesting, very complex and detailed.
  9. Porter's Avatar
    PA and I are opposites when it comes to our league. But OOTP 8 is not as complex as it's perceived, it's just the fact that the people in our league have done about 1 billion seasons under many flavors of 6.5 combined. So it's to retrain our minds to think outside of the comfort zone. I did about 100 sim seasons before even deciding on the rules. I originally was going to do 4 divisions of 7 teams each with top 2 from each division getting in and a rule 5 draft. I scrapped it because it would have been impossible to explain it and have the draft pool done right. I've messed with 2 college and 2 high school feeder leagues, but it would have been another TBSL/SBSL talent wise. I've messed with the sliders, sim schedules to where I could stop at the ASG, deadline, roster expansion and splitting September up so players can make changes while in the race. I made sure that actual ratings in 8 were different and they are. A "5" rating in the PSL would be an 7/8 in any other league except HSL (due to the deeper talent pool. I like the fact that 8/9/10's are not as common.
  10. Prez WilCo's Avatar
    I guess I'm still relatively new when it comes to these sim leagues. I've only been in leagues for little over 2 years now. I was introduced to S3SL last year and took me month or two to get sucked in. Now I'm in every league. I'm somewhere in the middle paragraph that you just wrote Kingdom. I'm crazy addicted right now. When i get bored I look thru my teams. When I wake up in morning I browse forums and my teams some more. When my kids take a nap I browse my teams some more. Before I go to bed give my teams another scan. I own a shaved ice hut and when I'm working that thru the summer I'm pretty much writing down all my players ratings and trying to find the perfect lineup. It's pretty sad actually.

    now for paragraph 3. If someone is cheating or making multiple accounts or whatever then to me if they need to cheat at a computer game more power to them. Yea it would be annoying but I have more important things to worry about. As for trading.... I admit last summer I prolly traded with Zod more than anybody. But I was a trading machine and I didnt ignore or phase anybody out. The only reason I traded with Zod so much is because we worked together. We would talk about our teams like 8 hours a day. It made trading very easy with him because of how much we talked about the leagues. But this year I have different job so I didnt make near as many trades with him. I think I have traded with about everyone now that I think about it. you could even say I might be addicted to trading as well.

    I hope you all continue these leagues because to me they are still fun. League wouldnt be the same without the postings of Kingdom I've grown accustomed to over a year. But I do enjoy these leagues a lot. And of course I just won my 1st title so I'd like to add to the total.
  11. HollywoodLeo's Avatar
    I totally get the confusion regarding not using the PM system here, Kingdom, but at the end of the day if you want something done you have to be the one who takes initiative.

    If you limit your options you limit your results.

    And yes, i can say the same to those who seem to not want to use PMs.
  12. HollywoodLeo's Avatar
    As for JC, don't leave the league because of him. If someone (anyone) proves to be a real pain in the ass then they should be the one that leaves, not the one who is in it just to have fun.

    I'll give JC the benefit of the doubt right now and assume he was just venting and will get over it. That doesn't excuse his tirade, of course, but at the same time if he was just venting then maybe it won't happen again.
  13. HollywoodLeo's Avatar
    Further note regarding AIM versus PMs

    If I have both available I prefer to use AIM. It's more instant communication and doesn't clog up my limited inbox capacity (an issue that's sure to become much more important when I take over MSL).

    With PM's I have to first refresh the page to find out I have one, then I have to make a few clicks to open the box, then I have to click on reply to to respond, then sit and wait for the other person to do the same. With AIM, the reply comes in then I just respond.

    Not as much of an issue with the 3-PM system (a term I just made up) that seems to work great with Kingdom trades, but not everybody negotiates the same way.

    Furthermore, using AIM (or Facebook) increases the availability of potential trade partners. People aren't always on the forums, but they may have their AIM continually logged on. I've worked trades via PM on plenty of occasions that started with an AIM message "Hey, I just sent you an offer at baseballslant, go check it".
  14. Porter's Avatar
    Here are my thoughts on the AIM, PM, Facebook. You have to adapt to how those people do business when it comes to making trades. I know that Kingdom loves communicate via PM. Which is what I prefer because I'm at work a lot and while AIM might be on most of the time. People on PM's are straight and to the point, no filler. Kingdom, Hammer, Dave, Zodious, and Prov are extremely good via PM. Rarely does the PM's go over 5 total unless its a blockbuster deal in which I think it went 6. I know that Slyder, Leo, Prez, DMB, and CJ are better to trade via AIM. I will not use Facebook to make trades, that's not why I'm on it. I still get those messages in AIM but i personally hate it.

    You don't have to have all the ways of communication to make a trade. You have to be about to knowing your other GM's and how they like to make trades. Don't make a guy thats good at PM's make a trade via AIM or vice versa. This is why i've been able to make trades with several different people. Not everyone is the same. Would you make a power hitter run all the time?
  15. Providence A's's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Porter
    PA and I are opposites when it comes to our league. But OOTP 8 is not as complex as it's perceived, it's just the fact that the people in our league have done about 1 billion seasons under many flavors of 6.5 combined. So it's to retrain our minds to think outside of the comfort zone.
    It's really not that way for me. It really is that it would require more time and effort on my part to really get into it. Now that my summer break is over, I just don't have the time or patience needed to be able to say that I gave it my best shot at competing.