Pujols gets the MVP

[Providence A's]

Considering I was only referring to Roger Clemens vs. Chris Carpenter, no. I never mentioned any other players or anything else. Fisher took it upon himself to continue to try to prove Clemens was better than Carpenter this time by proving that player X is not better than player Q because of MVP voting. That's like me saying I like cheeseburgers instead of hamburgers and someone saying cereal is better. It's got nothing to do with my main argument. I was talking about Clemens and Carpenter. No one else.

My point has been that Carpenter was the better pitcher this year and I'm not going to rehash all the old arguments. My point now was that he beat Clemens easily for the Cy Young and even had more MVP votes. Clemens wasn't even the best pitcher on his team, nevermind in the NL.

[ATLien]

Wins are over-rated. lol.

[Fishercat]

Since when did I do that. You said

A. Chris Carpenter 52
Roger Clemens 8
B. it means Carpenter is still better than everyone's new obsession Roger Clemens according to the people that actually vote and not some random people arguing on a message board.

Therefore, you believe that Carp > Clemens.

I never said ANYTHING about Clemens and Carpenter. I said that voting results are a load of shit because the voters when they get to 6th, 7th, 8th, etc. don't know what they are doing.

"My point has been that Carpenter was the better pitcher this year and I'm not going to rehash all the old arguments. My point now was that he beat Clemens easily for the Cy Young and even had more MVP votes. Clemens wasn't even the best pitcher on his team, nevermind in the NL."

You're saying, in addition to your opinion, he's better because the voters say so. And I said the voters are wrong on many things, which means they could be wrong here. Just because you are putting weight on a group of people who believe that Johan Santana is worse than Scott Eyre doesn't mean that I have to.

[Providence A's]

you implied that I agreed with all of the other voting. I simply added to my case that Carpenter > Clemens.

Roger Clemens! Roger Clemens.

[crimprocedure]

I'm surprised that Andruw Jones got so many first-place votes. I guess he's getting some props for his fielding. Still, Pujols should have taken all the top votes, at least those that Jones got, especially in light of Jones's late-season BA swoon.

[Fishercat]

And I added to my case that the voters are ****ing morons.

[Providence A's]

roger ****ing clemens!

[McKain]

Stupid ****ing douchebag!

Hint: YOU!

Thank god Jones didn't win.

[Providence A's]

Roger Clemens doesn't read this forum french fry.

[Saber]

Dude, you guys are totally obsessed with Roger Clemens.

I mean, it's not like he's ever done anything with his career.

[love_that_reefer]

Fine. If you want to go by that logic. You know, with the voters knowing all.

Pat Burrell is better than Jason Bay and Brian Giles
Crossing leagues, Scott Eyre is better than Johan Santana
He's also better than John Smoltz, and on equal footing with Brad Lidge.
David Eckstein is a better player than Adam Dunn
Carlos Lee is not only a better OF than Adam Dunn, he is one of the three best hitting OF in the NL (Silver Slugger).
Pedro didn't get a single point either
Todd Helton is worse than EVERY player on that list.
Jimmy Rollins is better than his double play mate, Chase Utley in 2005

1999 Ivan Rodriguez was not only a better player than Pedro Martinez in 1999, but also Manny Ramirez, Derek Jeter, and Nomar Garciaparra among many others.

4th place: 0.283 0.388 0.557 (6 SB-7 CS) (33 less PA than 20th))
20th place: 0.306 0.388 0.523 (17 SB-7 CS)
Then
5th place: 0.323 0.385 0.561 (61 more PA than 4th) (all played 3B for part of the time)

And then the biggest one, this got 13 first place votes (0.263 0.347 0.575), this got one (0.335 0.418 0.662).

None of this says they were better. Its all about value. Eyre was extremely valuable but shouldn't have been voted for MVP. Writers are dumb. As for Bay getting a vote, I just can't see it. He is a very good young superstar in the making but not a MVP candidate.

Now, CONGRATS to Pujols on a very deserving MVP Award. I thought for a second that Jones would steal it but thank whoever for letting the writers get it right. The writers got both MVP's right IMO and I am glad to see a Cards sweep.

[Saber]

Jason Bay was the third most valuable player in the NL.

[love_that_reefer]

Says who? You?

[McKain]

I believe he wouild be basing it on the VORP for the NL.

1: Lee, 106
2: Pujols, 98.8
3: Bay, 81.7

[Fishercat]

It's not a stretch by any means to say that a guy who put up a 300-400-560 type line with an efficent and positive stolen base rate and plays (seemingly) an above average corner outfielder was one of the best and most valuable players in the NL, even arguably Top 3.