Do players have MVP votes?

[Providence A's]

Cannot that be turned around?

Alex Rodrgiuez gets players out and prevents runs...the goal of pitching.

Does that means Alex Rodriguez is a pitcher?

Pitching and defense share the same goal, they just go about it in different ways. Among ways pitchers can control not giving up runs/getting people out are striking out players, not walking hitters, hitting hitters, or letting those hitters grab a HR. Among ways defensive players can control not giving runs are fielding those balls that do not fall into the K/BB/HBP/HR category.

pitching is part of defense whether you want to believe it or not. It's all defense, unless you're on offense. There's no in between in baseball...unless you're riding the pine or watching the game on tv or in the stands.

[Fishercat]

The problem is that the defensive whole (pitching + playing the balls) is split into two diverse sections. There is "pre-contact" prevention of runs, which I am calling pitching since that is what it is called by the general population. There is "post-contact" preventation of runs, which is basic fielding, which is what I was referring to in terms of pitchers not having defensive importance.

Everyone's heard the old phrase "pitching and defense win ballgames/championships". That's the split I was talking about. Pitching and defensive (post-contact) play. Kind of like the difference between defensive linemen and cornerbacks in football. Some say they all play defense. Some say they play run defense (defensive linement, pitching) and pass defense (corner backs, playing the field). They are both playing to prevent runs, and assuming THAT is what you mean by defense, then by your definition, you are right. However, they are doing it in such starkly different ways that I segment them differently.

[Providence A's]

you choose to separate them (they're not the same thing, but they're both part of defense like running and hitting are part of offense)...and the expression is referring to fielding the ball and pitching, which equals the total thing we call defense. Offense and defense...one or the other in baseball...and since pitching isn't offense, it's part of the defense.

[HollywoodLeo]

you guys are really arguing semantics now.

Providence is reffering to "defense" as in the team being on defense.

Fishercat is focusing on defense, as in the act of defending a batted ball.

[Fishercat]

That's what I said about ten posts ago, it was semantics.

[love_that_reefer]

Pitching is pitching

[HollywoodLeo]

thank you John Madden