Dynasty: SP edition (The Ace)

[redsrbetter]

I have long dreamed of the perfect all-time baseball team. I have taken a liking to a lot of people's thoughts and musings along the way. Like Rob Neyer's book on all-time greatest players at each position for every major league team.

I thought would could have our own B/S version of who we collectively believe is the all-time greatest.

The game is simple. I will list each MLB team, and we will collectively name a player within that thread's position category for each team. To the right of the player's name, we will list three very key stats.

For pitchers: (ERA, WHIP, K/IP) In that order...
For hitters: (AVG, OBP, OPS) In that order...


The rules: The statistics listed have to be given for the player's tenure on the team you are qualifying him for. For example, Babe Ruth can be listed ofr the Red Sox or Braves. When listing his credentials, do not list his career numbers. Only list his Red Sox numbers if you wish to call him the greatest LF in Red Sox history. Or list his Yankee career numbers if you feel he was the greatest Yankee LF in history.

The player has to have played the position you are giving him for at least the majority of his tenure. Example, listing Ken Griffey Jr as a RF and Ichiro as a CF for the M's will not work. Vice versa, will work.

Finally, there will be arguments on this list. The remedy? We will simply cure this through the stats. If someone lists player A as the best SP on the DBacks and another argues that player B is. The pitcher with the best stats wins. Plain and simple. Knowing that each player may have better numbers in one stat than another and less favorable numbers in a second stat than that same other, we will list the stats with the greatest of importance for you.

For pitchers:
ERA is first
WHIP is second
K/ip is third

For hitters:
OPS is first
OBP is second
AVG is third

And thats that. Now, let's get this thing started shall we? We start our dynasty out with position #1. The SP, and more prominantly called the "ace." We will fill out an entire rotation for every MLB team, so be sure to find the very best of the best for this first round.

P.S. One player can only be assigned to one team and one position. There is no cloning allowed in baseball.

We will break down by division first: Let's start with the incredible AL East:

1. Blue Jays:
2. Orioles:
3. Rays:
4. Red Sox:
5. Yankees:

[Hammer]

im not real sure what else im supposed to do except to list the top sp in each franchises history according to my opinion... im drunk, so i could be missing alot of what im supposed to do, but ill just go with it and be corrected later on...

1. Blue Jays: roy halladay
2. Orioles: jim palmer
3. Rays: scott kazmir
4. Red Sox: cy young
5. Yankees: whitey ford

[redsrbetter]

To the right of the players name, put down their career ERA WHIP and strikeouts per IP. Those numbers can only come from their tenure with that team though.

Good selections so far man, after you post the numbers, let's see if anyone can beat the names with someone who had better stats.

[Porter]

Toronto: Roy Halladay (148 W, 3.43 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 6.57 K/9, 133 ERA+)
Baltimore: Jim Palmer (268 W, 2.80 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, only a 5.0 K/9)
Tampa Bay: Scott Kazmir (55 W, 3.91 ERA, 1.39 WHIP, 9.432 K/9)
Boston: Cy Young (He has the award named after him. 192 W, 1.99 ERA, .970 WHIP, 3.4 K/9 in an different ERA, 275 CGs)
New York (A): Whitey Ford (236 W, 2.74 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, 5.6 K/9)

Note: Legit argument for Toronto in Dave Stieb (175 W, 3.41 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 5.2 K/9, 123 ERA+)

[redsrbetter]

Looking at Boston's all-time hurlers, I have to compare the big three.

Their numbers with Boston:
Clemens (3.06 ERA / 1.158 WHIP / 8.4 K/9)
Young (2.00 ERA / .970 WHIP / 4.4 K/9)
Pedro (2.52 ERA / .978 WHIP / 10.9 K/9)

These numbers tell me that Cy Young was more dominant in the ERA and WHIP category. He didn't strikeout as many hitters, but he kept them off the bases and particularly kept them from circling them.

Cy Young is my choice for Boston's ace as well.

[redsrbetter]

Look how comparable!

Toronto:
Stieb (3.42 / 1.241 / 5.2)
Halladay (3.43 / 1.198 / 6.6)

Halladay takes the cake, but barely.

[realmofotalk]

I think you're better off restricting the field to players in the last half century. With all due respect to Cy Young, he'd have a tough time today maintaining a 2.00 career ERA with a Jon Garland like 4.4 K/9 ratio. I go with Pedro for Boston.

[Porter]

Pedro's ERA+ is 190 to Young's 147. On that alone Id change my vote to Pedro. But whos to say Pedro would have 275 CGs in his era.

[redsrbetter]

Someone want to explain ERA+?

Also, I am definitely willing to open up the arguments with the stats on the players we are listing. If a player has stats that are comparable to another, we can open up the vault to add to the argument.

Like ERA+, I need to gain a better understanding of it, but it could be used if needed to make an argument.

If matters become too heavy, we can also settle some debates with a poll.

As far as choosing a specific era; I don't think it will produce a true B/S dream team. Leave no player out of the running. Yet, your point should be taken into enormous consideration mofo. It was a different time. If you want to argue that, share with us how the hitting may have been a lot weaker back then vs later.

[Porter]

ERA+ is 100*[lg ERA/ERA]. If your above 100 that means you were below the league average, its also park adjusted as well.

So if your at 190, I believe you were 90% better than the league average. Im sure some stathead will correct me here.

[redsrbetter]

League average numbers are very good for this argument. They provide the player's comparison to hi competition. I like it.

[Porter]

I think ERA+ could help with the different eras.
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