Morneau For MVP

[Dam8610]

Who exactly is protecting Morneau in his lineup? NO ONE!! Dye is deserving as I said in my original thread because he plays great defense and is having a great year but he has a lot of offense around him like Thome, Konerko and Crede. Oritz plays half the time and is isn't even hitting .300 which is sad as hell to me since all you have to do is hit. All DH's should be hitting .330+ since that is all they have to focus on. And to whoever said Morneau isn't even the MVP of his own team is ****ing nuts! If the Twins make the playoffs, there is no reason whatsoever that he shouldn't get the MVP.

Joe Mauer is no one? That's news to me. See, I thought Mauer was the best hitting C in baseball, but I guess he's no one. Also, what about Torii Hunter and Mike Cuddyer, both of whom have about 20 HRs, and Nick Punto, Jason Bartlett, and Jason Tyner, three more everyday players each hitting over .300? Are they no one too? Again, that would be news to me. Morneau isn't on the level of any of the 5 I mentioned, and he may not have a true power hitter behind him, but he sure does have a lot of guys that can get those dribbling rollers through the middle behind him. If having 4 other hitters in the lineup with a .300 average and 2 more hitters in the lineup with nearly 20 HRs isn't protection, I don't think anyone has protection.

Lets see I would have him ahead of Ramirez Thome and Hafner. Morneau has not been hurt all season. Thome please mr injuried again. Dye and Morneau are close. There leading there team what else can be said.

You show your homerism yet again. If you look at the numbers, there's no question that all 3 of those hitters that you think are "worse" than Morneau are clearly better. You help make the case for Thome. The fact that he has produced at least as well, if not better than Morneau, while being injured twice this season shows that he has been a better hitter this season. Hafner has just been amazing production wise, and were it not for some other hitters, he could have a case ala A-Rod in Texas. Manny Ramirez has been his usual self in Boston. Just his typical .300+/40+ HR/120+ RBI season, which makes him a viable candidate every year. I know you think that every Twin who does anything is the best at whatever he does, but that's just not true.

[love_that_reefer]

Joe Mauer is no one? That's news to me. See, I thought Mauer was the best hitting C in baseball, but I guess he's no one. Also, what about Torii Hunter and Mike Cuddyer, both of whom have about 20 HRs, and Nick Punto, Jason Bartlett, and Jason Tyner, three more everyday players each hitting over .300? Are they no one too? Again, that would be news to me. Morneau isn't on the level of any of the 5 I mentioned, and he may not have a true power hitter behind him, but he sure does have a lot of guys that can get those dribbling rollers through the middle behind him. If having 4 other hitters in the lineup with a .300 average and 2 more hitters in the lineup with nearly 20 HRs isn't protection, I don't think anyone has protection.

Learn your baseball and learn to read! Mauer provides zero PROTECTION for Morneau. Hunter? Who do you think picked up the slack with Hunter struggling? And who do you think pitchers rather throw to? Hunter or Morneau? Hunter obviously but yet Morneau has only 7 IBBs. Bringing up Nick Punto was pretty hilarious. Whether you like it or not, Morneau is on their level as he is top 10 in every significant category with no protection compared to everyone you mentioned. If you go based on the definition of VALUABLE, Morneau is more that than everyone on that list. Just because the Twins are making the Chisox sweat doesn't make you have to shit all over Morneau!

[Dam8610]

Learn your baseball and learn to read! Mauer provides zero PROTECTION for Morneau. Hunter? Who do you think picked up the slack with Hunter struggling? And who do you think pitchers rather throw to? Hunter or Morneau? Hunter obviously but yet Morneau has only 7 IBBs. Bringing up Nick Punto was pretty hilarious. Whether you like it or not, Morneau is on their level as he is top 10 in every significant category with no protection compared to everyone you mentioned. If you go based on the definition of VALUABLE, Morneau is more that than everyone on that list. Just because the Twins are making the Chisox sweat doesn't make you have to shit all over Morneau!

You think I need to learn baseball, yet you're telling me that in no way does having 4 other .300 hitters and 2 players surrounding him in the lineup that have about 20 HRs aid Morneau? You should be a comedian, because your material is pure gold. The way I've known "protection" to be defined in all my years of watching baseball, Jermaine Dye's main "protection" for the majority of the season has been A.J. Pierzynski, whereas Morneau's main "protection" has been Torii Hunter. Who do you think a pitcher fears more? Yet Dye has still outproduced Morneau. If you want to go by "valuable", how many times has Morneau beaten a closer to tie or win the game? Dye has beaten several closers this year, including the great Jon Papelbon, and most recently Joe Nathan last night. Obviously, it doesn't always end in a positive result, but the fact remains that he gives the team chances that they sometimes should not have to win. Add to that the fact that he's produced more than Morneau this year, and there's no question he is more deserving. The other hitters I listed are all outproducing Morneau too, but I'm sure they all have "better protection" too, just like Dye does.

[DirtyKash]

Magglio Ordoñez is the best player on the best team, thus he should be the MVP, so says the WIN METHOD.

[Dam8610]

Magglio Ordoñez is the best player on the best team, thus he should be the MVP, so says the WIN METHOD.

The WIN METHOD is held in about the same esteem as Fagglio Whoredoñez in my book.

[love_that_reefer]

Did you forget Crede who is hitting far better than Hunter? How convenient! Everyone you mentioned has better protection dude so quit kidding yourself because you aren't fooling anyone else. Hunter has not been good tis year so quit thinking its 2002. Morneau has .300 or better in late in the game situations, RISP w/ 2 out and plain ole RISP so your Dye argument holds little weight. Morneau is 3rd in RBI, 9th in BA, 7th in OPS and SLG and 8th in homeruns. I have said Dye will get a lot of consideration but for you to absolutely shoot this down is ridiculous. Dye is 2nd for the MVP because he plays great defense but his offense around is so superior this year with guys like Thome who will steal his votes. If Twins make the playoffs, its a no doubter. It should go to Morneau based on the true definition of MVP! Yes, go learn some baseball because you have Hafner in this conversation which is an outrage!

[love_that_reefer]

Magglio Ordoñez is the best player on the best team, thus he should be the MVP, so says the WIN METHOD.

Tigers have no real standouts for MVP talk.

[Fishercat]

Excuse me but Morneau has no one protecting him in the lineup. Morneau bats 5th and Mauer 3rd. Mauer gets on but Morneau is the guy that knocks him in. So that throws that excuse right out the window.

Mauer gets on...so Morneau can't be walked or Mauer would be put into scoring position, unless the guy between him gets a third out

[love_that_reefer]

Mauer gets on...so Morneau can't be walked or Mauer would be put into scoring position, unless the guy between him gets a third out

No, Cuddyer hits a double then Morneau cleans it all up with a three run shot!

[Dam8610]

Did you forget Crede who is hitting far better than Hunter? How convenient! Everyone you mentioned has better protection dude so quit kidding yourself because you aren't fooling anyone else. Hunter has not been good tis year so quit thinking its 2002. Morneau has .300 or better in late in the game situations, RISP w/ 2 out and plain ole RISP so your Dye argument holds little weight. Morneau is 3rd in RBI, 9th in BA, 7th in OPS and SLG and 8th in homeruns. I have said Dye will get a lot of consideration but for you to absolutely shoot this down is ridiculous. Yes, go learn some baseball because you have Hafner in this conversation which is an outrage!

In all my years of watching baseball, when someone has been said to have good "protection", it meant that the hitter batting in the NEXT spot in the order was a good hitter, which allows that hitter to see more good pitches to hit. Crede, being two spots in the order behind Dye, wouldn't be "protection" in that case, but nice try. Hunter is still better protection than Pierzynski and you know it as well as I do. Hunter will never be an all-world hitter, but he's putting up his usual .280/25-30 HR/90-100 RBI line, which is FAR better than Pierzynski will ever do. You want to talk RISP? Let's go there. RISP: Dye .360/.424/.754 13 HR 69 RBI vs. Morneau: .331/.406/.575 8 HR 75 RBI. CLEARLY, Dye is the better hitter, and it's not even close. I was speaking more of LIPS though, so if you can find those numbers, please share them. I'm sure they will show the superiority of Dye yet again. Dye has a higher batting average, more home runs, fewer RBIs (because he doesn't have Punto and Mauer in front of him), a better OBP, a better SLG, a better OPS, is a better hitter in situations when a hit can do damage, and is a good defender. If all of that doesn't make him more deserving, then this arguement is over, because at that point it would be blatantly obvious that you're a Morneau apologist for some reason (probably because you suggested he should win the MVP). As for the other hitters I listed, just look at the numbers. They ALL have outproduced him, and Hafner is doing it with less than Morneau has to work with.

[Witlon]

I'm sorry Dam, but I'll just skip through your entire argument and state what I did at the beginning...

If Minnesota wins the wild card and Boston doesn't make the playoffs, Morneau deserves to be the AL MVP.

Player on playoff team > Player not on playoff team. End of story. Move on.

[Dam8610]

I'm sorry Dam, but I'll just skip through your entire argument and state what I did at the beginning...

If Minnesota wins the wild card and Boston doesn't make the playoffs, Morneau deserves to be the AL MVP.

Player on playoff team > Player not on playoff team. End of story. Move on.

That's an IF on the playoff thing. So if the White Sox make the playoffs, Jermaine Dye is your AL MVP?

[love_that_reefer]

He would have my vote. And to say Dye's numbers aren't even close to Morneau's is absolutely retarded.

[Dam8610]

He would have my vote. And to say Dye's numbers aren't even close to Morneau's is absolutely retarded.

On RISP, Dye is CLEARLY better. I never said they weren't close, but Dye does lead Morneau by a great deal in a lot of categories. The only category Morneau leads is RBI, and that's because he has 3 .300 hitters with no power (okay, Mauer has a little bit of power, but still...) in front of him, whereas Dye has been behind two power hitters all year.

[Witlon]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

If Chicago made the playoffs and Boston didn't, than Jermaine Dye would be my AL MVP.

Ramirez would win it if Boston made it.

Sadly, it probably doesn't matter because the press all love Jeter.