Potential Dodgers-Indians deal?

[DirtyKash]

According to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal, the Dodgers and Indians are in serious discussions about a trade that would send Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez to the Dodgers for a package including either Clayton Kershaw or Chad Billingsley.

James Loney would also be involved, which makes sense because Martinez would play first base most of the time in L.A. We imagine that the Indians would prefer Kershaw, who will be a lot cheaper than Billingsley over the next few years. It's certainly a fascinating trade if it gets done.

Dodgers should not make this trade.

[realmofotalk]

I wouldn't be upset about parting with Billingsley and Loney for Lee and Martinez, but that still doesn't take care of the 5th spot in the rotation. Lee taking Billingsley's spot just means we win by a score of 5-2 instead of 5-4. It goes without saying that to give up at least four more years of Kershaw for a rental is retarded.

[Kingdom]

I like it for them if they did part with Billingsley and Loney for that, but they don't really have another pitcher to throw in to help with #5. I can't see mofo being thrilled with Glass Carl, Sowers, or Carmona's corpse.

[realmofotalk]

Actually, given a choice between Schmidt and Pavano, I'll gladly take Pavano. He's been like Brad Penny in that he has an occasional awful, awful game sandwiched between a string of quality starts.

[realmofotalk]

HOFFARTH: Thanks for everything, Kershaw, but Dodgers now need a Halladay
By Tom Hoffarth, Columnist
Updated: 07/27/2009 11:06:56 PM PDT

Clayton Kershaw, thanks for all the weeks you've put in as a member of the Dodgers. We admire your tiresome efforts to get past the sixth inning start after start after start. We appreciate the fact you've not used any of the shaving cream we've provided in the team shower facility.

But now you have a higher calling. You've become our sacrificial left-hander in our quest to make the city of LosAngeles temporarily misremember that the Lakers' 2009-10 season will start in just three months.

The Toronto Blue Jays have made it known they would like to have you on their roster. We will oblige them - in turn, by taking Harry Leroy "Doc" Halladay off their payroll.

We consider this a win-win situation. We'll win more games. You'll win more opportunities to endorse snow tires in eastern Canada.

Grab your warmest windbreaker and we'll see you come free agency 2014. Unless you flame out and are panhandling somewhere in the Texas panhandle by the time you reach your 27th birthday.

Now was that so hard?

Despite all this noise with Philadelphia, the Blue Jays have yet to secure a suitable trading partner for their former Cy Young and All-Star starting pitcher, but it's not for the lack of trying.

Last ESPN-induced rumor we checked, the Dodgers and Angels still have the opportunity to pull something off to obtain someone who ranks in the Top One of those able to overpower an opponent just by taking the mound and working the corners.

But don't delay. Act now. Supplies, and patience, are running out.

Toronto general manager J.P. Ricciardi has set the artificial deadline of today for his team to unload, or reluctantly keep, the coveted thrower scheduled to pitch Wednesday in Seattle against the Mariners - the same day Kershaw faces the Cardinals in St. Louis.

Still, if the Blue Jays are set on Kershaw, plus a couple of other needy-ocre prospects, this transaction should have been completed a week ago so the Dodgers could have penciled in Halladay to throw twice on this current road trip and send a shiver up and down the National League Central and East, as well as the American League.

Since when did Kershaw's potential become the equivalent to a hostage situation and keep the major-league leading Dodgers from an even clearer path to the NL postseason and beyond?

Someday, sure, he might throw a complete-game shutout, strike out 15 and walk just eight. But for now, he's unremarkably become the No. 2 bullet in an L.A. five-shooter that lacks anything to put fear into a playoff opponent. And don't even get us started on the bullpen.

In Kershaw, you relent on the chance he'll develop into an elite hurler.

In Halladay, you get it, guaranteed.

In Kershaw, you dispatch someone away who may never adjust to life in the Great White North, unable to avoid another Tim Horton's donut-stuffing break from his flat on the way to the stadium.

In Halladay, you get someone due $5 million for the rest of this season, $15million more for next season (or a bit less than what the Dodgers are giving to Jason Schmidt for his painful efforts this season), and the inside track to signing him up until he's finished with some Hall of Fame-worthy numbers.

The Dodgers' unwillingness to make a stronger play for Halladay - especially as the Phillies, the team that pitched them into the ground last October, keep their talks open with Toronto - demonstrates a weakness we must not be fully privy to. If Halladay's salary were too economically unsound, we might understand, if that were explained to us. If Halladay's medical history has some red flags, again, we'd be willing to listen.

But all we hear on this end isn't anything like that. It's that Kershaw is too valuable to surrender.

You've seen the exchange rate lately between things bought and sold across the Canadian border. We can't afford not to make the deal right now.

"What's the price tag?" Dodgers manager Joe Torre asked the other day when asked about whether the team can afford to swap out Kershaw for Halladay. "Is it gonna spring a leak somewhere else?"

It'll spring a leak in the Dodgers' playoff plans if the deal isn't done. A leak all the way to spring training, 2010.

What's the worst thing that could happen if Kershaw shipped off, turns into a four-time Cy Young Award winner and Halladay breaks his leg in three places trying to lay down a sacrifice bunt in his first NL at-bat?

In four years, when Kershaw is up for free agency, strike another deal with Toronto. We'll take Kershaw back, you can have another one of our talented, unproven prospects. Like, say, James McDonald.

Somewhere down the line, it'll all even out. Just like Chad Billingsley winning his 11th game of the season before August, Randy Wolf's curveball breaking a paper plate, Hiroki Kuroda pulling his career mark to the .500 level and Schmidt showing up to start at the next Dodgers' Old-Timers game

I'm all for win now, knee jerk trades, but this is getting ridiculous.

What's the worst thing that could happen if Kershaw shipped off, turns into a four-time Cy Young Award winner and Halladay breaks his leg in three places trying to lay down a sacrifice bunt in his first NL at-bat?

The worst thing is that our team's pitching staff is then ****ed for the next four years. No thanks.

[DirtyKash]

Your pitching staff wouldn't be that ****ed if you signed Halladay to an extension.

[realmofotalk]

Oh man, this non-deal will hurt. Still, **** the Indians for turning us down. When NedCo offers you a deal, you must believe that it will be a generous one. If you can get Carlos Santana for Casey Blake, you can certainly do better than Jason Knapp of the Phillies for Cliff Lee.

[Kingdom]

Jason Knapp might be better than Billingsley, though. Which isn't going to be a stretch to imagine.

If that deal went down, the phillies would have been sunk. They would have settled for Washboard, who completely faded away in Detroit. Or signed Livan Hernandez, muwhahaha.

[realmofotalk]

Ken Rosenthal is usually wrong. His trade ideas seem to come from the baseball equivalent of the ESPN NBA Trade Machine. I don't believe there's any truth to the rumor that Billingsley was being shopped. The Indians were realistically looking for a bundle of prospects in return.

[missionhockey21]

I agree mofo. I have seen more trade rumors than Dusty Baker has used up toothpicks involving the Dodgers trading away one of their promising young players like Billingsley or Kemp. Maybe he listens to offers on players like that, but I think most GM's listen to offers even on their best player, that doesn't mean they are actively being shopped or being labeled for the firesale bin.

[realmofotalk]

So near in fact, general manager Ned Colletti and team president Dennis Mannion still don't completely know why the Cleveland Indians ultimately chose the package of prospects the Phillies offered over the package the Dodgers offered.

"At some point in the offseason it would be thrilling to have breakfast with (Cleveland GM) Mark Shapiro," Mannion joked. "It would be thrilling to find out what you thought went wrong, because we felt that we had an extraordinarily compelling package that we had other people outside our organization raise their eyebrows that we didn't acquire him.

"I can't speak for Cleveland, they have specific needs and we don't know their organization as well as they do obviously, but we really put our best foot forward.

"Or at least we put our best foot forward as long as we were willing to put it forward without sacrificing our future for a long time."

SHELBURNE: Dodgers need a No. 1 arm to get a leg up - LA Daily News

So apparently, it wasn't just the Dodgers overrating their own prospects. Other people from other teams believed the offer was good enough, and good enough for other teams usually means Ned is overpaying. Whatever, the Indians beat to their own drum.

[realmofotalk]

Your pitching staff wouldn't be that ****ed if you signed Halladay to an extension.

What's stopping Halladay from turning down any extension offer before he tests free agency? Or the Yankees or Red Sox, whoever fails to win the pennant next year, from saying "**** it" and throw $200 million at Halladay?

[realmofotalk]

from Tim Kurkjian of ESPN.com:

The Dodgers need to acquire at least one topflight starting pitcher, but there is already speculation that they will not have enough money to re-sign left-hander Randy Wolf. If they don't have the money to improve the club, they might have to make a trade or two, and that has to begin with pitcher Chad Billingsley. For him to not make a start in the National League Championship Series -- but Hiroki Kuroda did, and Vicente Padilla made two -- means it's time for him to go.

That's ridiculous. Was it time for Brad Penny to go after he failed to make the playoff rotation in 2006 -- but Hong Chih Kuo did instead? Of course not.

If the Dodgers don't think Billingsley has the stomach to be a top-of-the-rotation guy, then they should trade him now for pitching help.

Billingsley may not be an ace, but how is he any less of pitching help than options Eric Bedard or Ben Sheets?

[missionhockey21]

Kurkjian must be really bored, already, to be making statements like that. We have all heard from the supposed insiders at ESPN how guys like him or Ethier were all but traded and yet they remain. And if the Dodgers do not have the cash to resign Wolf, then why would they trade a guy with a ceiling and a relatively affordable salary (from what I can recall)?