Recession Or Collusion?

[Yost Infection]

Here's something that's been bothering me concerning the lack of free agent movement by not only the Brewers, but all of MLB. I'm wondering if the owners are conveniently using the downturn in the economy as a cover for reinstating collusion back into Baseball

"Collusion in baseball happens when the owners work together to suppress the salaries of the players."

Can we assume that the economic recession is affecting all of the owners?

Does the Recession explain the Yankees not offering Abreu arbitration? Or the Diamondbacks not offering it to Adam Dunn? CC Sabathia's $160 million offer from the Yankees means we're clearly not operating in a market like the ones in the 80s, but if a majority of owners together, decide not to offer arbitration to players for the same reason, what's to say the same thing won't happen with free agency?

Actually, this whole situation brings up the question ...

Are MLB owners using the depressed economy as an opening to force MLB Free Agents to accept smaller contracts?

Explain the Yankees not offering Abreu arbitration? Or the Diamondbacks not offering it to Dunn?

Sabathia's $160 million offer from the Yankees means we're clearly not operating in a market like the ones in the 80s, but if a majority of owners simultaneously decide not to offer arbitration to people for the same reason, what's to say the same thing won't happen with free agency?

It seems to me that owners are claiming that it is the economy and the economic downturn that is why the free agent market is so slow.

But if one makes a public statement about not offering arbitration, or backs out of a negotiations citing a similar concerns, isn't that a veiled message to other owners to keep the salaries down?

It's way early to accuse anyone of collusion, but there are early signs worth watching as the off-season wears on through the recession.

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Frank

[rockin500]

no, the recession really isnt a big factor in the terms of arbitration. same with collusion not being a factor. Arbitration often isn't offered to players teams are afraid that are going to accept. It happened to the braves once when they offered arbitration to Maddux, and he ended up accepting it.

as for free agency, i think it IS a legitimate concern for some teams on whether to offer the huge deals that happened a few years ago to less than stellar players. It's not collusion though.

[mackjd]

Collusion is quite difficult to prove too. There is quite a bit of economic analysis that firms do to make that conclussion. Part of the reason there are so many type A and type B free agents available still is that teams have put higher value on draft prospects as they are looking to go cheaper and younger.

[Pronk48]

I don't think it's collusion. I don't think the owners are working together to make these players make less.

Lets look at Manny Ramirez for example. He's still one of the top hitters in baseball, but he's going to be 37 years old in May. He wants a huge dollar long-term deal from someone, but he's getting to the age where your production begins to decline, not to mention last year's mess that got him traded from the Red Sox to the Dodgers. Which Manny are you going to get, Dodger Manny or Red Sox Manny?

I don't blame most teams for being leery of him.

This is a lot like last year's talk of collusion against Barry Bonds. The owners didn't get together to blacklist him from MLB last year, nobody wanted to touch someone with federal charges hanging over his head.

Just like the owners didn't get together to not sign these guys. A lot of them are getting up there in age, there has been a youth movement in MLB these last few years, and now with the recession a lot of teams (obviously not the Yankees) have to be careful on how they spend the money.

[realmofotalk]

If league wide collusion actually existed, teams are already doing a terrible job of keeping the high profile free agents away from the Yankees' money.

If teams aren't leery enough of Manny's age and attitude, they are certainly leery of his agent, Scott Boras.

[Pronk48]

If league wide collusion actually existed, teams are already doing a terrible job of keeping the high profile free agents away from the Yankees' money.

If teams aren't leery enough of Manny's age and attitude, they are certainly leery of his agent, Scott Boras.

I totally forgot that that bottom feeding scum sucker is his agent.

[realmofotalk]

[missionhockey21]

I think there is a very real chance that some form of collusion has occurred, not for all players or teams, but a distinct effort to drive down the prices of mid-high profile free agents to get them to a point on the baseball calendar where said players and agents will start feeling desperate. Again, I don't know what form, if any, has taken place but for players like Bobby Abreu and Orlando Hudson to be without a team at this point in the year is suspect to say the least as you would figure there should be a lot more teams interested in those players than what have been rumored.

[love_that_reefer]

There is absolutely zero collusion occurring in MLB. Look at what the Yankees have spent this offseason as all the proof you need. Look at Manny. He's had three offers that would have made him one of the highest paid players ever and TURNED THEM DOWN! All the free agents left have legitimate reasons why they are not signed yet and why they shouldn't receive big, long term contract. Some of these remaining free agents also have a lot in common. Manny, Abreu, Dunn and Anderson are all OFers whose defense is suspect. That causes problems and GMs are finally valuing defense. Abreu, Dunn and Anderson are all left handed too which causes a problem in picking one out of the three. Manny, Abreu and Anderson are all older than 35. Orlando Hudson is coming off two straight years in which he couldn't finish a season due to injury. Same for Joe Crede. Then there are the free agents that will cost draft picks. In this wreck of an economy, teams are valuing their draft picks even more. There is no collusion here.

I like how the GMs approach and its smart business here. Not wanted to pay too much for one sided players or players with injury risks is a good thing. Can't say its collusion when Hudson can't find a deal and Furcal can. Both were practically in the same boat. Season tickets sales are down across the board. Baseball will suffer from the economic crisis. They need to take precautions in who they get. This isn't collusion, just good managing.

[missionhockey21]

League wide collusion? Of course there isn't league wide collusion. But I really do not know how anyone can not raise an eyebrow to what is happening. We all know teams like the Yankees will not play by the rules, nor will other teams hungry to get back to the positions they were in last year (such as Ibanez signing with the Phillies.) For true collusion to work, where the owners would not get caught, it could not be obvious. Signings would still need to occur, offers to be made and so on. But the timing is too ripe. We know when the economy suffers, other areas suffer with it, like baseball. For collusion to work, a situation needs to occur so that it would be believable. Almost any team can hide behind the veil of a struggling economy to profess its woes to agents and players.

Has it occurred? I have no idea, either way to be frank. Would the timing ever be better to get away with it? Not in our lifetime.

[love_that_reefer]

I'm not raising eyebrows because of the reasons I stated. There are a lot of reasons why these guys are not getting the money they thought they were going to get. This isn't like the mid 80's when guys like Dawson and Tim Raines had to settle for shitty contracts. These are guys who aren't complete ballplayers or serious injury risks in a severe economic downtime. Lets not forget Dunn still has a offer from the Nationals on the table and Manny has turned down three offers. GMs are playing this one right.