Ensberg to the Padres! Another mediocre hitter!

[HollywoodLeo]

Padres had the best staff last year and a horrible offense last year and where did it get them? The Cards offense did not suck in last year's playoffs by the way. You are on your way to making my point which is good to see

The Cardinals had 3 hitters (Yadier Molina, David Eckstein, and Scott Rolen) manage to hit anything higher than .234 in the World Series last year.

The Cardinals had 2 hitters (Molina and Puljos) hit anything better than .240 in the LCS last year.

They did pretty good in the division series, though.

In the meantime, they had pitchers like Jeff freakin Weaver throwing shut outs.

They won because of their pitching.

If that makes you think your point has been made, then sure, but they won because of their pitching and because they got hot at the right time, despite being the worst team coming into the playoffs.

[love_that_reefer]

Oh my ****ing lord!!!!!

Padres had the best staff in baseball last year with a shitty offense.
The Cardinals had a better offense and average pitching.
The Cardinals outscored the Padres and their better pitching 14-6.
My point!
Why will things change?

As for your point about the Cards offense sucking, they didn't against the Pads which is what I thought you were talking about since that's the only relevant thing to bring up.

[HollywoodLeo]

The Padres beat up on the Cardinals in the regular season.

What was the difference between that and when they played in the playoffs?

Did the Cardinals offense suddenly become that much better than the Padres pitching just because the game was played under the title "playoffs"?

Or was it because the Cardinals played better baseball that series?

Personally, I'd vote the latter no matter how many exclamation points you use.

[love_that_reefer]

There is a huge difference between the playoffs and regular season and you know that. Cards scored 27 runs in 6 games during the regular season so the offense was still there. Of course they played better baseball than you guys. Didn't know I was supposed to state the obvious. Here's another one, they played better than everyone else too Point is nothing has changed and that's why people think it's another first round bow out for the Padres. The more balanced teams win. '06 and '05 help make my point.

[HollywoodLeo]

The only difference between the games in the regular season and the games in the playoffs is that the playoff games were "playoff games" and thus meant more.

If you want to argue that that means the Cardinals players were more "clutch" and "turned it on when it mattered" then whatever, you might have a valid argument and that's for a completely different debate.

But this debate is about whether "good hitting" beats "good pitching" and the "good pitching" won a hell of a lot more often than not in the 162 game season and the "good" pitching lost in a 5 game series.

("good" put in quotes there because it really wasn't that good in that series.)

[love_that_reefer]

No the debate is whether a team with shitty offense and good pitching can beat better hitting and average pitching. That's the debate (along with nothing has changed with the Pads). More balanced teams win. Whole new ballgame once it comes to the playoffs. Regular season means shit and every teams roster is set, can't say that about the regular season games. There is a reason they call it playoff atmosphere, not just because it's October.

[HollywoodLeo]

No the debate is whether a team with shitty offense and good pitching can beat better hitting and average pitching. That's the debate. More balanced teams win. Whole new ballgame once it comes to the playoffs. Regular season means shit and every teams roster is set, can't say that about the regular season games. There is a reason they call it playoff atmosphere, not just because it's October.

Either way, that same exact "shitty offense, good pitching" team beat up on that "better hitting, average pitching" team more often than not in the regular season.

Then the playoffs came and that "shitty offense, good pitching" team didn't do it.

The only thing that changed was that it was now the playoffs..... the rosters were the same.

Again, if you want to argue that the Cardinals knew how to "turn it on" because the game was more important then whatever, again you might have a valid argument.

But in regards to the rosters and who can beat who....they were both the same.

If the Padres play up to their ability that they have all year I don't see why they can't beat the Brewers in the playoffs this year just like they did in a 3 times out of 4 this year so far.

[love_that_reefer]

The real issue was what I thought of the Pads chances and why. I have shown time and time again why I think nothing has changed. You saw it in '05 and '06. Same shit! The better offenses with worse pitching has come through against the Padres. Why would things be different? Answer that so we can stop this bullshit.

[HollywoodLeo]

I can't answer that. You're asking me to tell the future, something I'm incapable of doing.

One of us is insinuating the outcome of a possible playoff series 3 months from now is a lock like it's already in the books, the other is arguing that anything can happen.

How, exactly, do you expect me to prove my point except by waiting 3 months?

[love_that_reefer]

I doubt the rosters were the same in October than in late May but think whatever you want to.

[HollywoodLeo]

They were essentially the same.

The Padres got Todd Walker, I doubt his presence changed much of anything.

The Cardinals picked up Jeff Weaver. I'm sure he was a major boost to their offensive prowess.

[love_that_reefer]

I can't answer that. You're asking me to tell the future, something I'm incapable of doing.

One of us is insinuating the outcome of a possible playoff series 3 months from now is a lock like it's already in the books, the other is arguing that anything can happen.

How, exactly, do you expect me to prove my point except by waiting 3 months?

No I'm not asking for the future. I am asking why anything would be different and why I or anyone else should think differently. It hasn't happened the past two years so why should we think otherwise?

[love_that_reefer]

They were essentially the same.

The Padres got Todd Walker, I doubt his presence changed much of anything.

The Cardinals picked up Jeff Weaver. I'm sure he was a major boost to their offensive prowess.

Who was on the DL? Who wasn't called up yet? Rosters were not the same.

[HollywoodLeo]

No I'm not asking for the future. I am asking why anything would be different and why I or anyone else should think differently. It hasn't happened the past two years so why should we think otherwise?

Perhaps because the past does not dictate the future?

Perhaps because anything can happen in the playoffs?

Perhaps because the worst team to enter the playoffs has won it all as recently as last year?

Perhaps because the Padres' 2 bets pitchers in 2005 either couldn't start or pitched injured?

I mean, you keep clamoring on about how the last two years shows exactly what's going to happen when a different roster wearing the same laundry possibly takes the field in the playoffs this year on the grounds that those teams also had "good pitching, bad offense"...but is 2005 really that good of an example to back up your point?

Jake Peavy was pitching with a broken rib to start that series
Pedro Astacio started game 2....enough said
Woody Williams sucked that year (I'm still scratching my head why they didn't go with Eaton there.)

That series was hardly indicative of the Padres' pitching that season.

Besides all that, that team really wasn't that good anyways.

[love_that_reefer]

'07, '06 and '05 have the same makeup and that's why many of us think more of the same.