FOXSports: Gary Matthews Jr. to sign with Angels

[HollywoodLeo]

If you're going to use one stat to the exclusion of all other, at least use WARP3.

Or, if you're not a stat geek that knows what WARP3 is, at least use OPS.

[love_that_reefer]

Or here's a thought, watch a game and use all stats.

[McKain]

I don't know what watching a game is going to show you (in relation to offense, anyway) that's going to alter a measurement of a player's game or alter how we utilize statistics in it.

"He only hit .260! His OPS was 745!"

"WELL, HE SWINGS MUCH BETTER THAN HE ACTUALLY HITS!"

[realmofotalk]

What does all this have to do with Gary Matthews Jr.?

[love_that_reefer]

I don't know what watching a game is going to show you (in relation to offense, anyway) that's going to alter a measurement of a player's game or alter how we utilize statistics in it.

"He only hit .260! His OPS was 745!"

"WELL, HE SWINGS MUCH BETTER THAN HE ACTUALLY HITS!"

Watching a game shows a shitload more than just stats. A guy can hit three dying quails to the outfield and look like a god in the stats sheets. David Eckstein is vastly underrated because of his so called stats but watching his game shows what he does as a hitter.

[McKain]

Looking at Eckstein's stats shows what he can do as a hitter, too.

He can hit for average pretty well, he has a moderately good eye, he never strikes out, he has some decent speed with good base running instincts, but he rarely hits more than singles.

What could I gain from watching him? That he hustles exceptionally well? Somehow I don't think hustling well turns Eckstein from a weak-hitting shortstop into a good player.

I'd also go so far as to say that Eckstein is now overrated because of how so many people praise him for being a "short guy with great hustle who always gives 100% effort." He's one of the worst hitting shortstops in the league and he brings mediocrity to the table defensively, yet somehow people see him as much more than that.

[HollywoodLeo]

Eckstein was underated as an Angel, then he goes to St Louis and everybody loves him.

[love_that_reefer]

McKain you make my point for me and I thank you for it. People who know baseball don't overrate him because he is "short guy with great hustle who always gives 100% effort." If you watched a game you would know that he sets the table for the Cards every night. He sees so many pitches and works the counts which helps everyone in the lineup. He does all the little things that don't show up in stats. Kind of sad for you stat junkies but he is a very valuable comodity to the Cards success. And to say he is one of the worst hitting shortstops in the league is....stupid!

[McKain]

"He sees so many pitches and works the count" shows up in the statistics.

Eckstein saw an average of 3.75 pitches per plate appearance in 2006, and is at 3.83 for his career. I wouldn't call that "a little thing that doesn't show up in the stats" seeing as it very well shows up in the stats, and the ability to work the count and have a good eye is a pretty big thing in baseball.

Not to mention... That 3.75 #P/PA in 06? It ranks 82nd in the majors of those players who qualified for whatever ESPN's qualification is for it. Only 160 players qualified for it, so Eckstein ends up being... wow, middle of the road? Surely that can't be. He's got to be better than that - I know ,let's check where he ranks among shortstops!

21 shortstops qualified... Eckstein is in a three way tie for 10th? With how underrated Eckstein is, there's NO WAY this can be! There's absolutely no way Eckstein can be nearly dead center in P/PA for all players and for shortstops! He's this incredible player, with all this hustle, he works the counts all the time, he sees SO MANY pitches... he's the table-setter for the Cardinals!

Gimme a break. Eckstein does nothing that's all too spectacular yet people view him as this great, lead-off, good-defensive shortstop because he's 5'6" and busts his ass every play. You know what's a lot more important than seeing a lot of pitches? Doing something with those pitches, something Eckstein rarely does. Eckstein is viewed as being faaaar better than he really is, and no matter what you see when watching the game, there's nothing Eckstein does that can't be done by other people, and done better by them.

[love_that_reefer]

Funny how the Cards and Angels find success with him as a leadoff. Must be overrated Watch a Cards game and yyou night know something.

[realmofotalk]

Without Eckstein, the Angels and Cardinals would not have won the World Series. He was their catalyst for the offense and got the job done. How am I sure about that? Well, I haven't heard any stat head or Jim Rome media asshead use his name and the term "automatic out" in the same sentence. He didn't try to impersonate Ichiro on the basepaths or swing for the fences like Darin Erstad did. So he didn't draw walks. Big deal. He still got his 3 hits out of 10 at-bats, and that's not too bad, the last time I checked.

After the novelty of the Angels' WS win wore off, the pundits dogged on Eckstein for his below-average arm strength, as if to convince the Angels that he needed to go because of that. Now, Mike Scoiscia laments that his team is not getting it done at the leadoff spot.

[McKain]

Eckstein was great in the World Series, awful in the NLCS, pathetic in the NLDS for the Cards. The Cardinals won 83 games in the regular season. Where, exactly, did Eckstien help them here? By being average or below average at everything he does?

He was average in the World Series, awful in the ALCS, and awful in the ALDS for the Angels. The Angels won the WS in the year Eckstein had his career year, so I won't be as harsh to him here - but he was still merely an average player.

I've watched many Cards games. I've looked at many of David Eckstein's stats. Neither one of these actions has shown me much of anything to be impressed by, because Eckstein just isn't very impressive. At his best, he's an average shortstop offensively and defensively. That's not a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with being average, and if you can't see that Eckstein is average by this point, then your head is entrenched firmly in your ass or something.

[love_that_reefer]

Cards were without Eckstein for a month so that part of why they only won 83 games.
Average in the WS? He was the goddamn MVP!!!

Realmofo is absolutely right. Eckstein is one of the best leadoff men in baseball but since the stats say otherwise I guess I am a lunatic. Please quit trying to say Eckstein's defense is average when it is not. He arm is weak but he makes all the plays and is in the top tier amongst MLB SS's in defensive categories.

Oh yeah Matthews contract is ridiculous.

[McKain]

I said he was great in the World Series for the Cards - where he won the MVP. He was average with the Angels - where Troy Glaus won the MVP.

If you're claiming Eckstein is in the top tier of MLB shortstops then I'm thinking you don't get to see many of the other shortstops in the majors that often.
Rafael Furcal, Adam Everett, Juan Uribe, Omar Vizquel, Jack Wilson, Michael Young, Miguel Tejada, Orlando Cabrera, Jimmy Rollins, Alex Gonzalez, Bobby Crosby and Derek Jeter are all more than likely equal or better than Eckstein on defense, and I'm sure there's a few other people I'm missing.

Yeah, Matthews contract is absurd. The Angels will be crying when he's 34 and getting 300 PAs in a season and probably hitting .250. It's going to be very similar for most of the OFs who've signed so far and their respective teams - fun for the first year or two, then tears for the next 40 million of the deal.

[HollywoodLeo]

Funny how the Cards and Angels find success with him as a leadoff. Must be overrated Watch a Cards game and yyou night know something.

I think the Cards and Angels found success with an entire team.

Just sayin

PS: The Cardinals won every playoff series due to the pitching, not their offense.

Look up the Cardinals' offensive stats in each series they played. You'll be amazed.