2010 NFL Random Randoms Thread

[HollywoodLeo]

You don't have to say it, but you've done nothing but allude to the fact by taking away any perceived achievement from him. Yeah, sure, it's easy to say Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won super bowls. But how much did those teams count on them to win games? Baltimore and Tampa had top defenses, defenses that scored a ton, special teams, and a ground game. Young has had some talent around him, like a strong defense, but nothing as strong as 2008 or as Baltimore and Tampa in the early 2000's.

And you could point that out, and I'm just going to point out how good their defense was in 2008. They had a lot more to mask Kerry Collins. They weren't nearly as great, they did not have Haynesworth, the defense line wasn't as productive, and Lendale White was.. well.. at some bar eating wings.

If you want to draw conclusions on my posts that aren't there that's fine, but if you follow my arguments you'd realize the crux of my complaints is that VY shouldn't be attributed with a "win/loss" record, nor should "his" W/L record be pointed at as any sort of valid proof that he's good.

He's matured some and played a good game when he got his starting spot back last year, but he still needed help from his teammates to get that w/l record that Porter wants to credit him solely with.

[Porter]

Which was originally brought up because BuckFoston pretty much discounted that VY isnt that good. I said he finds ways to win, he didnt agree I just put up his W-L record, not as a end all like you assume I did. He won't take them to a super bowl unless he gets WRs better than Kenny Britt.

[HollywoodLeo]

I've never liked the "find ways to win" argument either. It seems like a cheap cop-out excuse when you can't think of any tangible reason why he's doing good. It's like all the people who make excuses for David Eckstein's sub-par stats talking about his "grit" and "moxie".

The guy's a scrambler who can avoid tackles and has an average at best throwing arm. Any time you have a scrambler who can avoid tackles on a team that's good enough to win as a whole you start getting these types of debates. One person says he sucks but is on a good team, the other points at "his" win/loss record and says he "finds ways to win" and "makes plays".

The truth of the matter is, Vince Young is a decent-to-good QB that has been on a pretty good team that he works well with. If you give him the right tools he can make it work, but he needs those tools more than most GOOD qbs do.

He's not a great quarterback by any stretch. He's not the type that you can just plug into almost any roster and expect a good turnaround but he does what he needs to do in the system he works in.

The same can be said for Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and even Mark Sanchez to an extent.

[BuckFoston]

It can be two ways. Can Chris Johnson get 2000 yards rushing if VY can't throw? When the team struggles who is the first person they blame after Jeff Fisher. It's not Chris Johnson.

BuckFoston - Didn't VY throw a game winning TD pass in his 1st or 2nd game back as the starter?

Would you really like for me to pull up Vince Young's passing stats? I would be more than happy to pull those out and just show you how shitty of a passer he is.

Yes Porter, he does add a whole new aspect to the game when he comes in but is he a QB I want on my team for the next 6-8 years? No. Not at all. I don't want a QB who has career stats that look like these.

TD - 32

INT - 39

Passer Rating - 72.3

I completely agree with Leo on the argument that you can not credit him with turning the season around. If you wanna credit players by W-L, Kerry Collins went 13-3 in '08.

Is the guy super athletic? Yes
Quick? Yes
Great mobility? Yes
Able to create plays with his legs? Yes
HELPS contribute to the win? Yes
Mature enough to carry an NFL franchise? No
But what is the the thing that kills me.. Is he a great.. no scratch that, a GOOD throwing QB? NO.

Just look at his shitty stats right here.

http://www.nfl.com/players/vinceyoun...e?id=YOU617196

[realmofotalk]

Even though he's right about his assessment of Vince Young, I wouldn't put it past Leo to be more enthusiastic about Young if he happened to have the 26-13 W-L record as a Charger. Of course, that scenario would preclude the presence of Philip Rivers (who has an even better W-L record), but if he can enjoy watching a squad of below average hitters (an understatement for some of them) surrounding Adrian Gonzalez have a successful run leading up to the acquisitions of Ryan Ludwick and Miggy Tejada, who's to say he would be a doubter of VY?

BTW, I hate to mix sports up in the analogy but it was just to hammer my point, so sue me.

[Hammer]

"and even Mark Sanchez to an extent. "

too early to call, but im not disagreeing at this point in time. however, i do think schottenheimer handcuffs him WAY TOO MUCH. schottenheimer loves screen passes. i realize we dont want the kid throwing a costly pick, with our defense... but let the kid play free for a little bit at least. if he throws a pick 20 yards downfield... big deal. im tired of 12-20 for 115 yards. and alot of it is the playcalling.

[redsfan28]

Which former Texas QB will have the better career: Young or McCoy?

BTW, seeing Favre getting destroyed last night by a couple of linebackers was priceless. Welcome back, Brett.

[HollywoodLeo]

to answer your questions, mofo
would I enjoy it if the chargers had VY and were winning with him? Of course i would.
would i call him a great qb? No
i'm not going to apologize for enjoying the Padres success. Why shouldnt I enjoy it?

[realmofotalk]

I wasn't implying that you shouldn't enjoy a good run (fluky or otherwise), but rather if Vince happened to be your QB, I imagine you would curb the debate with the detractors with a blunt response like, "Eh, who gives a shit" rather than, well, give a shit that he's not a great QB.

[redsfan28]

Two things I took from last night's game: 1) VY is developing into a pretty good QB and 2) Matt Leinart and Derek Anderson are battling for worst starting QB in the league this season.

[redsfan28]

Cardinals QB Matt Leinart sounds off about possibly losing his job - NFL - Sporting News

Are you freakin kidding me??? Hey Matt, you lost your job because you suck! You couldn't beat out Kurt Warner, who was on his last leg when the Cardinals picked him up. You couldn't beat out Derek "I hate Cleveland" Anderson either. Quit your *****ing and learn to play or quit. Honestly, I hope he gets cut so that he can go play for the arena league or for the UFL (hey, he could play with Maurice Clarett)

[realmofotalk]

I didn't realize Darrelle Revis is the nephew of Sean Gilbert. The same Sean Gilbert who once said he "had a revelation from God" that the Redskins should pay him the $5 million he was holding out for. So that's where Darrelle gets his douchebaggery from.

[redsfan28]

The Jets are screwed without him, so they had better cough up the cash.

[HollywoodLeo]

The Chargers traded for Patrick Crayton today shredding any bit of doubt that remained that Vincent Jackson is as good as gone.

[realmofotalk]

Excuse me, Patrick who?