Ivan Rodriguez Leaves Game With Back Spasms

[ThomasTomasz]

ThomasTomasz...Are you saying that Jim Leyland and his staff have had no effect on this team and that all improvement is due to Rodriguez. If this is what you are saying than I think you are missing a great coaching job done by this Staff. Leyland Has done a fine job since he went to the Tigers and even though Rodriguez is a fine catcher thats as far as it goes. JMO

No, Leyland does deserve credit all around but for the starting pitchers, I don't think the pitching coach has done that much. These guys were young, and breaking into the majors when Rodriguez came. He's been the one with them while they've improved little by little in 2004 and 2005.

In my opinion, the pitching coach has made few, if any, changes to the mechanics of these pitchers. If he had, the pitchers would be struggling like those on the Orioles (Mazzone has drastically altered the deliveries of the starters, and teaches completely different from Ray Miller) or like Zach Duke, whose delivery was altered by his new pitching coach this spring as well. What I'm saying, is that Rodriguez does deserve some credit for the starting pitchers, especially bringing Bonderman off a 19 loss season, and Maroth's 21 loss debacle.

[RockSports17]

Chuck Hernandez didn't come in here and alter the mechanics of these pitchers. He didn't have to. He changed little things here and there, even adding a couple of pitches to some pitchers. Nothing huge. What Mr. Hernandez did do, along with Leyland, was put something in these pitchers that Pudge could never provide.

Confidence. These pitchers are confident now, confident to take a risk here and there. Confident about their pitching capabilities that they've always had. These pitchers would be doing this great, if Pudge was here or not.

I'm not trying to bring down Pudge, but I'm not going to give him credit that he truly doesn't deserve. Pudge is a great player and he's been great for the Detroit community. He's not irreplaceable. You may not have been impressed with Vance Wilson, but some games, I'm like Holy shit, who was that after this player makes a great play or a great hit. It's Vance Wilson. I like Wilson a lot, and he's a great backup catcher.

I understand, that back spasms can put a player on the DL. But I haven't heard anything of that sort right now. Right now is all what matters.

Your giving credit to Pudge because Maroth and Bonderman bettered themselves when he arrived after a year they both lost 20 games. Come on, Pudge isn't a 1 man team. That team was improved because of many players. Vina, Rondell White, plus with the development of all our younger players. You act as if Pudge is god.

[ThomasTomasz]

Chuck Hernandez didn't come in here and alter the mechanics of these pitchers. He didn't had to. He changed little things here and there, even adding a couple of pitches to some pitchers. Nothing huge. What Mr. Hernandez did do, along with Leyland, was put something in these pitchers that Pudge could never provide.

Confidence. These pitchers are confident now, confident to take a risk here and there. Confident about their pitching capabilities that they've always had. These pitchers would be doing this great, if Pudge was here or not.

I'm not trying to bring down Pudge, but I'm not going to give him credit that he truly doesn't deserve. Pudge is a great player and he's been great for the Detroit community. He's not irreplaceable. You may not have been impressed with Vance Wilson, but some games, I'm like Holy shit, who was that after this player makes a great play or a great hit. It's Vance Wilson. I like Wilson a lot, and he's a great backup catcher.

I understand, that back spasms can put a player on the DL. But I haven't heard anything of that sort right now. Right now is all what matters.

Your giving credit to Pudge because Maroth and Bonderman bettered themselves when he arrived after a year they both lost 20 games. Come on, Pudge isn't a 1 man team. That team was improved because of many players. Vina, Rondell White, plus with the development of all our younger players. You act as if Pudge is god.

Alright, I concede. You've got me stumped. Great debate, and thanks for the information. But, what I'm still trying to say is that Rodriguez was a big part of helping to bring along those pitchers these past two years. I was probably giving him too much credit, but can you agree with that?

[Bear]

ThomasTomasz...Man don't back off so easy. You make good points and Rodriguez does deserve some credit for the way the pitchers have done. All I am saying is so does the Manager & his Staff!

[RockSports17]

It was a great debate. I'm sorry, but I can't give Pudge, ok fine. I'll give him a little bit of credit for bringing along these pitchers, for them to have a great guy to throw to. Pudge has provided some experience for the Tigers. I'm not going to give him tons of credit for the pitchers turnaround this season. Just look at Maroth, always inconsistent, never was a really great pitcher. Look at him this year. He's pitching great. Why do you think that is? Confidence. Purely confidence. Something this whole Tigers team has lacked before Leyland. Not to mention, players are accountable for how they play, they're being treated with respect and as men by Leyland and Co. Something Trammel didn't do. These players were always considered young kids when they were playing, if somebody made a mistake. "It was because he's young and still has a lot to learn."

[Bear]

RockSports17... I agree! Leyland has always treated his players with respect and as men! Trammel I believe fell into the Hall of Fame former player roll who thought all players schould play up to his standards. As we all know this does not work because most players never make it to the Hall. Any way you made great points and I hope ThomasTomasz... keeps it up because he brings up very good questions and I like that! JMO

[Porter]

I personally think the progress of Bonderman, Verlander, Zumaya and Shelton have had a great effect on the team. Pudge is that type of guy that keeps everyone together. I think both sides have great points here.

[RockSports17]

Huh? I'm confused by the statement, "Pudge is that type of guy that keeps everyone together."

You don't think it's the manager/general manager who keep everyone together. Tigers have built their organization off of good character guys. Guys who help communities across Michigan.

Really, my point, it's a team game. No one player has a huge effect on another. It's mostly the coaching staff.

[Bear]

RockSports17...In agree that its the manager and GM who build and are the glue for the team, but do not discount the importance of the catcher and in this case Pudge! If you had a young rookie at catcher he would not have nearly the effect on the pitchers that Pudge has. That said Leyland is the main reason for the Tigers upturn! JMO

[RockSports17]

ha ha. Don't be embarrased man. We're all here to talk and discuss about these things. Maybe I do underestimate the importance of catchers, especially Pudge. Pudge is a great hitter in some games. Truthfully, I think Vance Wilson can pretty replace him minus the hitting. I truly like Pudge as a player and person. Tigers wouldn't be the same without him, but lets stop making him out to be the sole reason of Tigers success. Or even part reason of Tigers success. It's the Tigers as a whole, that are responsible for the Tigers success.

[Porter]

Huh? I'm confused by the statement, "Pudge is that type of guy that keeps everyone together."

You don't think it's the manager/general manager who keep everyone together. Tigers have built their organization off of good character guys. Guys who help communities across Michigan.

Really, my point, it's a team game. No one player has a huge effect on another. It's mostly the coaching staff.

Its a team game, I was trying to say when things go wrong within the team then, Pudge is the type of guy to keep things in order and running smoothly.

[Bear]

Porter99... I agree that baseball is a team game but if there is on position on the field that effects everyone else it is catcher. Pudge is one of the best and his influence can be seen in the way the pitchers work however the turnaround is Leyland and his staff. JMO

[Porter]

Normally Catcher and Shortstop makes a lot of the decisions on the field. So i thought it would be natural that they would be more of the leaders. At least in theory. And yes its a team game.

[Bear]

Porter99...

Catcher and Shortstop makes a lot of the decisions on the field

I agree and the manager and staff decide who the players are on the field and which players make up the team. But it all boils down to TEAM which includes the entire organization! JMO