Travis Hafner for MVP?

[Providence A's]

[Fishercat]

Still don't think Vlad's had enough PAs with his stats to justify it. Hafner has less PAs, better stats, but I'd take Ortiz' 130 PAs over 20 points in OBP for Hafner.

I think the two choices are Ortiz and Rodriguez (two best hitters in the AL right now) (although, I'm not sure if I fall into the "not MVP on own team". If you flipped it with A-Rod sucking for two months and Giambi owning, that doesn't make A-Rod MVP of the Yankees). Rodriguez makes the most sense statistically, Ortiz is my bias pick. I don't think any other choice is really legitimate (maybe Michael Young, but nah). If I were an actual sportswriter that had to vote objectively...

1. Rodriguez, 2. Ortiz, 3. Hafner (although Young or Guerrero are both fine with me, even Santana).

[love_that_reefer]

If you flipped it with A-Rod sucking for two months and Giambi owning, that doesn't make A-Rod MVP of the Yankees).

Actually yeah it would. Arod could have had another MVP type year on a bad team like with the Rangers. Not saying Giambi was the ONLY reason but without him, this team isn't where it is today.

[MarinersFan87]

Actually yeah it would. Arod could have had another MVP type year on a bad team like with the Rangers. Not saying Giambi was the ONLY reason but without him, this team isn't where it is today.

So what? Where would the Yanks be without A-Rod? In a much worse position than they'd be without Giambi.

Your logic seems incredibly flawed. A-Rod was playing great when Giambi sucked, so the Yanks weren't that good. Now both A-Rod and Giambi are playing great so of course they're a better team. How does this make Giambi the MVP?

[love_that_reefer]

Because he was the key to get that team going, not Arod. How many times do I have to say it?

[MarinersFan87]

Why was A-Rod not the key? He was playing great once they started to win...

[love_that_reefer]

He was also playing great when they were at the bottom of the AL East. I have said this about 400 times now. When Giambi got going, so did the Yanks. I asked you ten posts ago where you got lost and apparently its right at the beginning.

[MarinersFan87]

I just keep bringing it up because I think it's stupid that you say that Giambi is the Yanks MVP just because he had a great half of a season instead of a great full season like A-Rod.

[love_that_reefer]

Well its about value and not the best. Arod is clearly the best but Giambi got this team going in the right direction.

[Kingdom]

He can win the MVP because he's tearing it up in the most important month. Vlad won it last year because he owned September.

[Fishercat]

Vladdy also had a full-season's worth of plate appearences to go with a red-hot September and he was on a playoff team (assured) to boot (Cleveland is likely around a 70% chance or so). Hafner's been injured for a bit. Hafner may end up, if he gets some extra inning games and big scoring games, 600 PAs?

BTW, September Numbers

(Player-BA-OBP-SLG-OPS-HR-RBI-PA)
Hafner-.263-.424-.697-1.122-10-24-98
Ortiz-.305-.423-.695-1.118-10-22-101

Does that look REALLY similar to you? It does to me too. Hafner's been no better than Ortiz in September (and both have been fantastic), it's not that big of a plus for him as Ortiz has done the same exact thing with more overall value at the same "position".

[Providence A's]

Ortiz has done it with greater lineup protection than Hafner as Ortiz has Manny, who does Hafner have that is even close to Manny? Manny Ortiz will steal votes from each other and will not win the same way Pedro Lowe stole votes from each other and Zito won the Cy.

[love_that_reefer]

Now you see why I hate the AL, MVP's come down to DH's and don't give me the DH is a position too. Its a place in the lineup but not a position. The pitcher is the position. I am so glad my dad has never used a DH in high school.

[Fishercat]

Yes, Ortiz has Manny Ramirez. He has a better protective hitter than anyone on the Indians (although guys like Sizemore and Peralta are better guys to drive in than Damon and Renteria). That's not deniable. However, I was just showing that Ortiz has a similar September to Hafner so the argument isn't valid for Hafner, maybe for both (Haven't checked A-Rod).

The only reason I am not that offended by a DH being an MVP candidate is simply because they would be playing 1B if they had to play the field. Players who have to move out of strenuous positions (C, CF) go to first base and usually do it well. Ortiz and Hafner have played 1B before, if not like Derrek Lee.

DH is not a position except in the batting order, but I believe that a player cannot be punished for being a DH as it isn't their choice to be a DH, it's just there is a better defensive player on the roster. Sure, Rodriguez and Jones (Andruw) should be rewarded for playing a premium defensive position well, that's fine, but just because a team is putting it's best possible defensive lineup on the field with regard to offense (say, Olerud over Ortiz at 1B with Ortiz at DH) shouldn't negate Ortiz from receiving the MVP if the voters vote that way.

And really, out of the Top 3 NL MVP candidates, it's the same exact thing: two 1B and a premium position player (AL: Rodriguez, Ortiz, Hafner; NL: Pujols, Lee, Jones). The team just sees that their next best offensive option after their Top 8 position players usually is a 1B or OF and in Ortiz/Hafner's case, it is a better defensive 1B.

Hell, I could argue that Hafner playing DH instead of 1B gives him value since he may have a negative value as a defensive player...but I'm not that drunk or crazy.

[love_that_reefer]

Pujols plays great defense as well. These guys are DH's for a reason, they can't field a position. Put them at first and they will suck out loud. Pujols and Lee play great defense and save their teams some outs and runs.