Willy Mo traded for Bronson Arroyo (Confirmed)

[volzok]

And what if Pena came in from the WBC (where he's played twice) and started off getting 1 hit in his first 40-45 at bats cause hes rusty? And his season totals look about like .220-.280-.500-.780 would his value get higher or lower?

I dont think that really matters b/c the Sox were trading for potential. Potential that they can probably turn around. They have wanted to get rid of Manny for years and now they have an excuse. Pena will back up this year and probably start in LF next year.

[missionhockey21]

And what if Pena came in from the WBC (where he's played twice) and started off getting 1 hit in his first 40-45 at bats cause hes rusty? And his season totals look about like .220-.280-.500-.780 would his value get higher or lower?

Slyder, I assume you are calling the local bookies and have the Reds down in the World Series this year due to this trade? I was willing to take the risk that we could do much better because the fact is we don't have much else. Most consider Dunn, Lopez, Encarnacion, and Harang to be essentially untouchable overall. Kearns is a project, like Pena. And then you have contracts people dont want and a few prospects of any value. Pena or Kearns dealt at the deadline to a contending team needing a bat and assuming that either had nice production to that point, could of really netted us a nifty prospect. Arroyo might be a fine pitcher but not one to make us from pretender to contender. Not to mention the inclusion of cash in this deal. I thought R Cast was going to drop the bucks down but instead we're getting cash in a deal for a guy with a low contract (compared to others)... why? Personally I am not hopeful that we'll be getting the talent next year in FA which is the only one I could see us contending barring some sort of miracle in a pitching staff or guys like Bailey jet-rocketting through the system.

[redsrbetter]

I have to agree with missions thoughts and it may have benefited us more if we were patient. This just leads me to believe that they really did not think Dunn could hack it at 1B. They just really wanted him or he really wanted to go back to LF and they had to get what they could before Pena would have to sit the bench again. They would never be justified if they sat Pena and started Hatteberg at 1B.

I think that Narron may have told Krivsky that he can't see himself starting Pena because he feels like Hatteberg would be more productive. We can't deny that Narron would think that way. So, Krivsky had to do what he can with Pena now. Not to say that Narron has too much pull in baseball decisions. But he has all the power in the world to sit Pena and start Hatteberg when he wants.

I hate to sound dumb here, but I blame Narron's thinking on us not waiting. But I still like the move for what we got out of Pena not producing yet. I am happy that we have another quality pitcher on this team.

[missionhockey21]

Oh and the point I had meant to make in regards to the cash in the deal is, why didn't we give up that for an inclusion of a prospect? That's usually what happens. Either way, that's something that isnt setting right.

Well, I am done ranting and raving for awhile. I hope this works out for us, just understand why I am pessimistic. Trades and luck in general have not been the Reds forte.

[Slyder]

I dont think that really matters b/c the Sox were trading for potential. Potential that they can probably turn around. They have wanted to get rid of Manny for years and now they have an excuse. Pena will back up this year and probably start in LF next year.

Who are they going to trade Manny to and NOT HAVE RIOTS in Boston afterwards? How many teams are willing to take on Manny's contract at this point? How many times have they put him on the block and the only one you hear being interested is NYY (and remember what happened the last notable time the Sox "traded" an OF to the Yankees)?

They couldnt get rid of Manny 2 yrs ago, they couldnt last year, they wont this year, and they wont next year.

[Wally Mo Pena]

also, for those who don't know, his full name actually is Charles Bronson Arroyo, he just goes by his middle name. That too, is totally sweet.

i uderstand why mission is pessimistic, because none of the reds moves they've made recently have worked out. it's hard not to think that anyone we get is going to fail after milton and all the rest.

but mark my words, when we're over .500 and in the race for the wild card this year, people aren't going to be moaning about this trade, they're going to be happy the reds are contending.

[Slyder]

Slyder, I assume you are calling the local bookies and have the Reds down in the World Series this year due to this trade?

I just dont get why everyone's already harping that Pena's going to be the next Manny, when we dont know what might happen.

I was willing to take the risk that we could do much better because the fact is we don't have much else. Most consider Dunn, Lopez, Encarnacion, and Harang to be essentially untouchable overall. Kearns is a project, like Pena. And then you have contracts people dont want and a few prospects of any value. Pena or Kearns dealt at the deadline to a contending team needing a bat and assuming that either had nice production to that point, could of really netted us a nifty prospect.

If Arroyo turns around and becomes a "good" pitcher (for argument sake 3.80 ERA) dont pitchers usually net more especially the fact hes 29?

Arroyo might be a fine pitcher but not one to make us from pretender to contender. Not to mention the inclusion of cash in this deal. I thought R Cast was going to drop the bucks down but instead we're getting cash in a deal for a guy with a low contract (compared to others)... why? Personally I am not hopeful that we'll be getting the talent next year in FA which is the only one I could see us contending barring some sort of miracle in a pitching staff or guys like Bailey jet-rocketting through the system.

Like Ive said before to fill all the holes in this pitching staff would have required Dunn to get traded. O'Brien and Bowden left the pitching very shallow and Arroyo will be here for 3 yrs to at least give us a solid innings eater to insert around Harang, Claussen, Bailey and not have to worry about whether Dunn and Co will still be here or leave as a FA.

[Geki Ace]

Consider your words marked, Wally. I intend to rub them in your face when it's July and the Reds are last in the division.

[volzok]

but mark my words, when we're over .500 and in the race for the wild card this year, people aren't going to be moaning about this trade, they're going to be happy the reds are contending.

Well, I agree with mission. I am done talking about this stupid trade. I hope you are right Wally. But I want more than .500. Since this deal happened, I now expect the Reds to make the playoffs or this trade is useless. I now expect other moves from Krivsky as the season goes on to keep the Reds competitive. So while I was looking for improvement this year, my expectations have now been raised and I will leave it at that.

[volzok]

I just dont get why everyone's already harping that Pena's going to be the next Manny, when we dont know what might happen.

The same reason you think hes the next Branyan.

[NFLman2033]

Why do people think Arroyo's a good pitcher? He's a 5th starter on a team with a halfway decent staff, and he's not going to make us much better. Congratulations, Reds front office. Arroyo was traded because the Red Sox don't need him, since they have a bunch of average starters. Hm, sounds eerily similar to how we got Dave Williams. The Pirates didn't need him because they had better stuff. When we're trading fan-favorite hitters for guys that the Red Sox and Pirates are looking to dump from their rotations, you really need to re-evaluate how you're doing things, and I suggest not doing it solely for monetary reasons. Castellini is no different from Lindner, and Krivsky is no different from O'Brien. I think I'm gonna go become a Red Sox fan or something.

Awesome post that is exactly what I am thinking

[NFLman2033]

Lets say he got 700 ABs, the record in the MLB. He still would have hit .254, and around 40 HRs. Oh, and bad defense and low plate awareness.

not to mention you are assuming he doesn't improve his OBP by being more patient something he has been working on all Winter along with his defense

[missionhockey21]

also, for those who don't know, his full name actually is Charles Bronson Arroyo, he just goes by his middle name. That too, is totally sweet.

i uderstand why mission is pessimistic, because none of the reds moves they've made recently have worked out. it's hard not to think that anyone we get is going to fail after milton and all the rest.

but mark my words, when we're over .500 and in the race for the wild card this year, people aren't going to be moaning about this trade, they're going to be happy the reds are contending.

Charles Bronson? Classic movie tough-guy? That's awesome.

But I really hope you're right Wally. Maybe the stars will allign this year, who knows.

[Fishercat]

...

Really, this deal pisses me off. Not so much that the Red Sox aren't doing what makes sense. This makes a lot of sense. Platoon Wily Mo for a year with Nixon until an OF gets hurt and have him take over RF next year, and the Sox give up an extra SP. However, Bronson signed cheap with the Red Sox with an unofficial NTC. This disappoints me that the Sox would pull out on that so quick.

I'll miss Bronson.

[missionhockey21]

Personally I think the only way the deal is fair is if we trade one player with cornrows....


That we get another one back.