Willy Mo traded for Bronson Arroyo (Confirmed)

I think it's time to move Griffey to LF, so his lack of speed doesn't hurt as much. He still has great field vision, but can't run as far or as fast as easily. He would have much less room to cover in LF. Denorfia plays good D and would be better in CF.

Unfortunately though, as you said, it looks like we'll be stuck with Hatteberg at 1B, Woe-mack or Aurilia at 2B, Dunn in LF and Griffey in CF until Jerry Narron is fired. He is an absolute idiot.

We should have known that before now though, as O'Brien thought he was the right guy for the job. :rolleyes:

I love this trade for the BoSox, we had 7 SP going into the season and with Nixon's health issues and him becomming a free agent at seasons end, I couldn't be happier to be a Red Sox fan. This guy should thrive in Fenway and allow us to let Nixon walk at seasons end.

While most don't value Arroyo, keep in mind he was 7th in the AL last year in quality starts, something that will be a big help to the Reds. As it was said above you guys already had enough offense and a terrible staff, this trade helps you all in the pitching department and gives us the bat vs. LHP that we needed.

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Originally Posted by Wally Mo Pena

we control arroyo for as long as we were going to control wily mo pena, which is 3 years. so the "long term" is the same. In those three years, what is going to be worth more to the reds, a pitcher like arroyo who will produce lots of quality starts and will probably post harang like numbers, or another power hitting OF.

Here's a hint. We had the best offense in the league last year by a little bit, and the worst pitching in the league by a lot. the difference between hatteberg and casey isn't going to be much, and nothing else changes from last year with our offense. so wily mo was still an extra outfielder if our goal was to put up the same offensive numbers that we did last year, which were the best in the league.

So again, what is worth more over the next three years, another pitcher like harang, or an extra outfielder with terrible defense, terrible pinch hitting numbers, on the best offense in the league?

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The reds are in no position to really contend this year. A pitcher like Arroyo, could be had in Free Agency. Its not a matter of me not wanting a pitching staff for the Reds, or me being opposed to trading Pena. Long term being we are not going to get another hitter with his type potential every year, whereas there are 5-10 pitchers every year that are available like Arroyo. His pinch hitting ability is irrelevant since he would have been a starter. Guys like Lester or Pap. for Boston (I would have been happy with that). What makes them more of a spec than Wily Mo? Wily has shown major league power and hitting potential, arroyo has shown that he is mid-level pitcher. If we were one or 2 pitchers away from getting to the playoffs fine....but, as it is now...the reds will still finish 20 games (or worse) behind the Cards.

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"Signing Hatteberg was the key" to the deal, Krivsky said.

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Krivsky is definitely just as incompetent as O'Brien. Hatteberg had an OPS of .678 last year. As a 1B.

I read that too and thought :rolleyes:

well i think you're wrong about where the reds will finsih, but that's all just speculation at this point, so who knows. pena is a prospect in a way, but he can't hit for average or OBP, so he's not an elite prospect, and thus would not bring an elite prospect in return. Plus, position player prospects just aren't valued as highly as pitching prospects.

the thing people need to realize is that this deal is as much for the future as it is for now. Yes a pitcher like arroyo could be had in free agency, but for 8 mil/year, not 3. See matt morriss. you need to have a deep rotation to win it all, not just an ace, and in 2008, we'll be paying next to nothing for arroyo to be our 5th starter, and he'll be a great fifth starter. that money will allow us to buy a top teir FA starter to go with bailey:

projected 2008 rotation:

Bailey
FA
Harang
Claussen
Arroyo

when you get that kind of production from the back end of the rotation, you can tear off huge winning streaks.

in 2008 who of these guys will be gone: Griffey, Dunn, Kearns, EdE, Felo.

answer: none. we will have every bit the offense that we do now, and the pitching to back it up. add to that a free agent 1b, and we look pretty tough, without wily mo.

i love wily, don't get me wrong, but this move was about winning more now and preparing to win a lot more in the future, which is i remember, is exactly what Castellini said he wanted to do.

Junior will be eligible for social security, Dunn will be traded, Kearns and Felipe will be on the way out. I'd think that at least one of those pitchers will be gone, and as I've said before, I don't think Bailey's going to develop to his full potential. You're placing way too much hope in stuff staying the same, and that's very unlikely, especially with this organization. This move might help us a little bit now, but it likely doesn't in the future.

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Originally Posted by Geki Ace

Junior will be eligible for social security, Dunn will be traded, Kearns and Felipe will be on the way out. I'd think that at least one of those pitchers will be gone, and as I've said before, I don't think Bailey's going to develop to his full potential. You're placing way too much hope in stuff staying the same, and that's very unlikely, especially with this organization. This move might help us a little bit now, but it likely doesn't in the future.

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you're just guessing, i'm talking about who will be under contract.

Hey guys, I'd just like to thank everyone for not getting personal (which many of us have done from time to time in the past, myself included.) It's been a very active and thought-filled discussion without any shots being taken; really enjoyed it so far.

Look back at the 2004 team. How much turnover have we had since then? There's a whole lot of changes that are probably gonna take place, and this organization is pretty much the last one you can count on to keep good players around.

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Hey guys, I'd just like to thank everyone for not getting personal (which many of us have done from time to time in the past, myself included.) It's been a very active and thought-filled discussion without any shots being taken; really enjoyed it so far.

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That was so incredibly directed at me, you asshole son of a ***** ****.

Hm, those asterisks ruined that for me.

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Originally Posted by Geki Ace

That was so incredibly directed at me, you asshole son of a ***** ****.

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Actually, not really. But since you seem to take pleasure in thinking that, feel free to man.

Psh, everyone knows I'm the best at making personal attacks.

The only way this ends up being a "good" deal for the Reds if WMP sucks or gets injured because Arroyo will not improve and will get titted in GABP. Win 20 games Varitek? Are you serious? The only reason he won 14 games was because he was on one of the top offenses. Sure, he'll probably win 14 or so again because the Reds score a boat load of runs, but he's still garbage...

yay! He's cheap! woo hoo! He's still average...a #4, maybe 3 tops, on most teams. He'll be a 2 on the Reds because the pitching sucks. Yes, WMP is on potential, but Arroyo is pretty much tapped as far as potential...the Reds need to trade for SP specs or draft the pitching they need. The Bronson Arroyos of the world are not the answer in any situation.