05 groundball starters

[Wally Mo Pena]

Stole this from another board, glad to see people are recognizing what the reds need to be looking for.

Listed below in descending order of their ground out/ fly out ratios are the 39 '05 MLB starters who recorded GO/AO's of 1.2 or higher with ERA's under 4.50.

1) Brandon Webb, ARI, AGE 26, 14 &12, 3.54 ERA, 3.60 GO/AO
2) Derek Lowe, LAD, AGE 32, 12 & 15, 3.61 ERA, 2.82 GO/AO
3) Mark Mulder, STL, AGE 28, 16 & 8, 3.64 ERA, 2.70 GO/AO
4) Jake Westbrook, CLE, AGE 28, 15 & 15, 4.49 ERA, 2.53 GO/AO
5) Tim Hudson, ATL, AGE 30, 14 & 9, 3.52 ERA, 2.26 GO/AO
6) A.J. Burnett, FLA, AGE 29, 12 & 12, 3.44 ERA, 2.11 GO/AO *
7) Chris Carpenter, STL, AGE 30, 21 & 5, 2.83 ERA, 2.06 GO/AO
8) Greg Maddux, CHC, AGE 39, 13 &15, 4.24 ERA, 1.81 GO/AO
9) Jason Marquis, STL, AGE 27, 13 & 14, 4.13 ERA, 1.70GO/AO
10) Victor Zambrano, MYM, AGE 30, 7 & 12, 4.17 ERA, 1.67 GO/AO
11) Andy Pettitte, HOU, AGE 33, 17 & 9, 2.39 ERA, 1.65 GO/AO
12) Nate Robertson, DET, AGE 28, 7 & 16, 4.48 ERA, 1.62 GO/AO
13) Jeff Suppan, STL, AGE 31, 16 & 10, 3.57 ERA, 1.54 GO/AO
14) Roy Oswalt, HOU, AGE 28, 20 & 12, 2.94 ERA, 1.52 GO/AO
15) Carlos Silva, MIN, AGE 27, 9 & 8, 3.44 ERA, 1.51 GO/AO
16) David Wells, BOS, AGE 42, 15 & 7, 4.45 ERA, 1.50 GO/AO
17) Matt Morris STL, AGE 31, 14 & 10, 4.11 ERA 1,49 GO/AO *
18) Freddy Garcia, CWS, AGE 29, 14 & 8, 3.87 ERA, 1.47 GO/AO
19) Carlos Zambrano, CHC, AGE 24, 14 & 6, 3.26 ERA, 1.47 GO/AO
20) Tom Glavine, NYM, AGE 40, 13 & 13, 3.53 ERA, 1.45 GO/AO
21) Danny Haren, OAK, AGE 25, 14 &12, 3.73 ERA, 1.45 GO/AO
22) Roger Clemens, HOU, AGE 43, 13 & 8, 1.87 ERA, 1.43 GO/AO *
23) John Garland, CWS, AGE 26, 18 & 10, 3.50 ERA, 1.38 GO/AO
24) John Smoltz, ATL, AGE 38, 14 & 7, 3.06 ERA, 1.32 GO/AO
25) C.C. Sabathia, CLE, AGE 25, 15 & 10, 4.03 ERA, 1.31 GO/AO
26) Mark Buehrie, CWS, AGE 27, 16 & 8, 3.12 ERA, 1.30 GO/AO
27) Brett Myers, PHI, AGE 25, 13 & 8, 3.72 ERA, 1.30 GO/AO
28) Kevin Millwood, CLE, AGE 31, 9 & 11, 2.86 ERA, 1.28 GO/AO *
29) Kyle Lohse, MIN, AGE 27, 9 & 13, 4.18 ERA, 1.27 GO/AO
30) Mike Mussina, NYY, AGE 37, 13 & 8, 4.41 ERA, 1.25 GO/AO
31) Doug Davis, MIL, AGE 30, 11& 11, 3.84 ERA, 1.24 GO/AO
32) Kenny Rogers, TEX, AGE 41, 14 & 8, 3.46 ERA, 1.24 GO/AO *
33) Estaban Loaiza, WSH, AGE 34, 12 & 10, 3.77 ERA, 1.23 GO/AO **
34) Dontrelle Willis, FLA, AGE 24, 22 & 10, 2.63 ERA, 1.22 GO/AO
35) John Lackey, LAA, AGE 27, 14 & 5, 3.44 ERA, 1.21 GO/AO
36) Jon Lieber, PHI, AGE 35, 17 & 13, 4.20 ERA, 1.21 GO/AO
37) Brad Penny, LAD, AGE 27, 7 & 9, 3.90 ERA, 1.21 GO/AO
38) Jake Peavy, SD, AGE 24, 13 & 7, 2.88 ERA, 1.20 GO/AO
39) Javier Vasquez, ARI, AGE 29, 11 & 15, 4.42 ERA, 1.20 GO/AO

* Free Agent
** Free Agent Already Signed

[Wally Mo Pena]

of this group i think the reds could hope to aquire:

nate robertson
carlos silva
kyle lohse

and probably a few others.

[missionhockey21]

Lohse doesn't impress me as a significant enough of an upgrade (to trade for). Gives up too many hits, doesn't strike out enough and even though he doesn't give up a ton, he isn't exactly stingy with the longball over his career. Just nothing I see that really shines in his favor.

[Wally Mo Pena]

i think you're right, in the end. I'd much rather try to work out a deal for Silva and Baker from the twins, for Dunn+. Or just go straight up Kearns for Baker.

[Geki Ace]

The Twins aren't gonna give up Silva easily. He's got amazing control and good stuff, is still young, and they're expecting him to be their righty arm to go with Santana and Liriano. I'm still not why you're so hung up on Baker. He's a good, not great, prospect, and he really isn't what the Reds need.

[redsrbetter]

WOW, I didn't know Webb did that great this season. People have mentioned trying to go after him before and this only makes him look better.

[Geki Ace]

There's a reason I've been saying we have no shot at landing Webb.

[missionhockey21]

The Twins aren't gonna give up Silva easily. He's got amazing control and good stuff, is still young, and they're expecting him to be their righty arm to go with Santana and Liriano. I'm still not why you're so hung up on Baker. He's a good, not great, prospect, and he really isn't what the Reds need.

6.45 K/BB ratio... wouldn't it rock if some of our pitchers could post that.

[Geki Ace]

Yeah. That's twice as good as Harang, and he was great.

[Wally Mo Pena]

i've seen baker pitch, and i think he can put up consistent sub 4.00 ERAs from everything i know. Maybe Harang has gotten to thqat point too, but he's our "ace." If we can get a young guy, who's real cheap, that will be as good as our "ace" for kearns or pena, i'd do it in a heartbeat.

I know baker isn't going to win the cy young, but he's ready to go.