Rotoworld's column part about reds closer

[ghettochild]

Cincinnati - His recent performance -- in truth, his performance ever since the start of 2004 -- has been disappointing, but Ryan Wagner is the future stopper for the Reds. The University of Houston product was destined for the job from the moment he was taken 14th overall in the 2003 draft. It’s looking the Reds were right not to immediately install him as closer when they let Danny Graves go last month, but his time will come. I still think he’ll pass David Weathers in August.

Beyond Wagner, the Reds don’t have a lot beyond some potential setup men. Todd Coffey should develop into a quality reliever by next year. Joe Valentine picked up a few saves for the club last year, but his command only seems to be getting worse. With his impressive fastball and curveball, Luke Hudson would be pretty interesting as a reliever. Back from arm problems, Triple-A Louisville closer Chris Booker might be able to help the Reds in the middle innings. Same goes for David Shafer. Also, former Braves prospect Bubba Nelson has taken well to relieving and might earn a look later this year.

Closer prediction: 2006-08 Ryan Wagner

interesting stuff

[redsrbetter]

Yep very interesting. I just don't see it yet. He has to really become dominant in this second half to give us that comforted feeling. Right now, I do not believe that he could be as good as 75% of the closers out there. Hopefully he will get there though.

[General]

One thing's for sure: you're missing Reitsma right about now.

[redsrbetter]

One thing's for sure: you're missing Reitsma right about now.

Definitely for sure. We missed him the day he was traded.

[Slyder]

It was a given that Reitsma trade would hurt because of the fact that we had no one else even remotely close to being a dominant closer. I thought maybe Acevado could be but he let something get in the way of that and ended with his departure from the franchise.

[Sea Ray]

One thing's for sure: you're missing Reitsma right about now.

The Reitsma deal IMO is the worst move O'Brien has made as GM and I doubt you'll find a soul on this board that ever supported that deal with Atl. This isn't Monday morning QBing. It was a clunker from the get go.

That deal is exhibit A as to why O'Brien should go as a GM and how he cannot judge talent

[Wally Mo Pena]

I don't think the Reitsma deal was a bad one. He was making a little money, and it's not like having Chris Reitsma as our closer was going to propel the reds to the playoffs. If we had him this year, we'd have won a few more games, and so what. Same with last year.

I think Bubba nelson can be every bit the pitcher reitsma is, in fact they're very similar. Both were starters who didn't throw very hard because of pacing. Both moved to the pen with a starter's repertoire of pitches, and both started throwing 95-96. So if Nelson comes up and closes for us for the next few years, a brad lidge type, i think that dealing reitsma will have been worth it. Like i said, loosing him didn't really change anything for us over the last few years, except money.

[Sea Ray]

I don't think the Reitsma deal was a bad one. He was making a little money, and it's not like having Chris Reitsma as our closer was going to propel the reds to the playoffs. If we had him this year, we'd have won a few more games, and so what. Same with last year.

I think Bubba nelson can be every bit the pitcher reitsma is, in fact they're very similar. Both were starters who didn't throw very hard because of pacing. Both moved to the pen with a starter's repertoire of pitches, and both started throwing 95-96. So if Nelson comes up and closes for us for the next few years, a brad lidge type, i think that dealing reitsma will have been worth it. Like i said, loosing him didn't really change anything for us over the last few years, except money.

I don't see it that way and here's why. Having Reitsma may have made the difference in some devastating losses this team has had to endure. It can be argued that the St Louis debacle led to the downward spiral this team is on. Last year it was that Milwaukee game where a huge lead was lost. These types of losses break morale. I think this team would not have lost these games with Reitsma in that pen.

As for Nelson, I wasn't impressed with him a couple years ago. If he becomes a Brad Lidge then you're right it was a good trade. If he just becomes another Reitsma or worse then it's not a good trade. Why trade an established veteran for a guy who might match his success after toiling in the minors for years? I hope I'm wrong and you are right but I question whether Bubba will ever be as good as Reitsma is.

[Wally Mo Pena]

why you would trade Reitsma for a guy who will be as good as him in the future, is that reitsma is making money now because he's established, and the reds don't need to be paying that money now since we have no shot of winnning. If we can get a younger version of Reitsma at a lower cost during a time when we might contend (say the next three years), then the trade would be worth it in my opinion.

I agree that things like the St. Louis loss hurt this teams morale, but if you go back to those games and start guessing how things would have been different if they hadn't happened, you're opening up a whole new can of worms. For example: in that st louis game you'll remember that in the ninth inning sean casey dropped 3 balls thrown to him that he usually gets. If he get's those, or even just one of them, the game is over we win. Maybe Danny grave's confidence comes back and he gets better, and the reds never sink into dispair and graves stays on as closer and saves 40 games for us.

Does that mean that we should have traded casey, or benched him? It's just one of the dozens of things that has gone wrong for this team, and i don't think having Reitsma would have made us a contender, or really even close to one, though like i said, we would have won a few more games. Remember, graves still would have been the closer probably.

[Sea Ray]

Graves was bound to fail because his stuff was horrible. That wasn't going to change.
I think blown 9th inning leads are the most devastating to a team especially a young team. The money Reitsma was making was not that much and O'Brien has made it very clear that Chris was not traded for monetary reasons. Given the money he doled out for Weber, Weathers and Mercker I take him at his word. Money was available for him and he never would have made big money even in arbitration because as a set-up man he wasn't going to accumulate stats to show off.

That was a horrible, horrible deal by O'Brien. It cost this team dearly in terms of morale which is severely lacking. You don't trade young pitchers like Reitsma. We have no pitcher like him on our staff. He was not a replaceable part. Keeping him would not have made the difference between post season and also ran but it was huge and still is.