What the heck is going on?

[redsrbetter]

First the poll:

Is the season over or not? Is it time for RCast and company to think about the future? Is it time to call up Bruce and Bailey and let them take their lumps now?

What in the world has happened to this team? The initial reaction is that Dusty Baker has come in and was supposed to help this team gain a better sense of teamwork and togetherness. Yet, they seem more out of sinc than ever. They seem like they have already given up.

Many people (like the media) are making the argument that this team can still contend because they are just hitting their rough stretch early. Is this a ploy to help the organization sell tickets? Or are they really that ignorant? Outside of a 10 game win streak; I am not too sure how they can get back in it. And it definitely doesn't look like a win streak is coming any time soon.

So for us as fans, we have collectively given up. We realize that the offense is putrid and when it does decide to score a few runs, the pitching seems to fall off. It is a horrible team concept and whatever the management is selling to the players, it is flat out not working.

Am I asking for new management? Absolutely not. We have tried that far too many times already. The one thought that can't escape me is that all the managers and GMs that have been fired over the past 5 years have a common denominator. They have had Dunn and Griffey leading their offense. Not that the two power left handers were incredibly bad in their entire tenure, but their good years were when this team didn't have a prayer because the pitching was terrible. Dunn is still producing (OPS and OBP wise) and he just doesn't seem like a good fit anymore. This team, more than anything else, needs guys to make contact with RISP. They need a manager who will employ his players to provide movement on the basepaths and will at the same time ensure a winning attitude is maintained in a losing clubhouse.

Looks guys, we have the pitching, we even have the hitting, it is just a matter of putting it together. Yet it seems like this team just doesn't mesh well together at all. It is a list of really good talent, that just doesn't compliment one another as it should. Now we are getting destroyed in the standings. Is this season over, or are we just going through a funk right now?

[redsfan28]

This team blows, plain and simple. Krivsky put together a turd! The question is, what can Jocketty do with what he has? He can't move an underproducing Dunn, Griffey, or Arroyo. His hands are tied.

[Kingdom]

Sorry, voted you guys suck. You're making great strides with the pitching, so far Dusty isn't killing the staff, but your offense is built wrong. You'll never be good if Dunn is the guy you're building around.

[redsrbetter]

So lets try and rebuild this offense, what are the suggestions with what we have? Either minor league or at the big league level.

I don't want to just see a new lineup, but why does each player bat in their part of the lineup. In other words, if Dusty gave you the lineup card, and Jocketty let you play GM for a day to do call ups/ send downs or trades, what would you do?

[missionhockey21]

Sorry, voted you guys suck. You're making great strides with the pitching, so far Dusty isn't killing the staff, but your offense is built wrong. You'll never be good if Dunn is the guy you're building around.

This offense was never built around Dunn and it's ludicious to even hypothesize that and it gives WAAAAAAYYYY too much credit to this team's management. Unless your idea of building is: "Hmm... Adam really can swing for the fences and get on at a pretty good clip, let's add anti-OBP Corey Patterson to leadoff to be the yang to Adam's ying."

"Oh, Dunn is struggling awful bad this April. Let's stick him lower in the lineup, you know, where his .390 OBP will never be utilized and pitchers will never give him anything decent to hit... that's a slump buster. Adam Dunn has an OPS of over 1.000+ from the two hole? Let's stick Griffey there instead, the BA of .10 higher makes up for his .65 deficit in OBP."

Moving past the "building" comment, it's clear that Dunn is meant to be a core part of this offense... even if the lineup construction or acquisition of players haven't been done to Dunn's benefit. Call me crazy, but leaving a guy like Dunn alone after a .940 OPS season with 40 bombs was a better idea than trying to make him hit for more contact and less strikeouts (thank you Mr. Baker.) But hey, Dunn has a 1 to 1 ratio of strikeouts to walks! Something Baker is doing must be working.

[Doppelgänger]

Griffey just look terrible, to the point where I squirm when he swings. Which almost always is at a pitch low, away and out of the strike zone. To bad he never sees any of this as he is staring into the right field bleachers through the whole at bat. Hopper needs to be given a chance in center, Bruce needs to go into right. The Patterson experiment is over. Watching the game today while I studied for finals I realized what I was looking at. A team going through the motions, just whatever, doesn't matter what happens. Then I see a game like the Mets vs the Diamondbacks. I see Reyes get upset striking out in a key situation, players trying to make things happen, actual emotions. This team needs more than a trade, it needs a heart transplant. No one seems to care out there. Here is the lineup I would run out there:
1) CF Hopper
2) LF Dunn
3) 2B Phillips
4) 1B Votto
5) 3B Edwin
6) SS Kepp
7) RF Bruce
8) C Bako/Ross

Why does Dusty hate Hopper so much?

[redsrbetter]

Dunn has always been a funny subject in itself. The mere mention of his name can make people appreciate what he brings to the team and on the other side it can make people cringe.

I think a lot of people are tired of his walking because the HR is too overhyped. I hate it when someone says that so and so is a bigtime major league talent because he hits 40 HRs a year. What else does he do? Dunn does a heck of a lot more than hit HRs and I just don't think people see that. Yet my question is whether or not he is a good fit for this team. And if he is, is he being used properly?

My proposed lineup:

Freel CF --- Freel has been on a tear of late and he is our best option in CF right now and our only option in the leadoff spot. (Batting .333 as a leadoff hitter in 30 ABs)

Dunn LF --- His best production comes as the 2 hitter and he would have some good bats to protect him which would allow him to swing the bat a bit more.

Keppinger SS --- Weird huh? Yes it is weird, but he is our best hitter and our best hitter with RISP. Normally you would want some more power in this spot in the lineup, but we just don't have a prototypical 3 hole hitter anymore.

Encarnacion 3B --- Clutch. Has more HRs and RBIs than anyone on the team. 2nd best OBP on the team.

Votto 1B --- Probably will contend with Keppinger as the best contact hitter on the team. Is getting better with time. Power and BB ability would be useful here.

Phillips 2B --- Provides excellent protection to the 4th and 5th hole. Good SLG skills and bad OBP skills. 6th spot is a good spot to drive runners in and is not the best to take a walk considering the 7-8-9 spots are usually the weakest spots in the lineup.

Bako C --- Bako is still on a tear. The 7th spot is a good spot for a guy who gets on base and can make good contact. Bako has been one of the best on the team in both categories this year. He bats 7th until he fades.

Bruce RF --- Is he ready? Likely not, but he would be good here. He would provide power and couldn't be expected to be much worse than Griffey right now.

[Kingdom]

This offense was never built around Dunn and it's ludicious to even hypothesize that and it gives WAAAAAAYYYY too much credit to this team's management. Unless your idea of building is: "Hmm... Adam really can swing for the fences and get on at a pretty good clip, let's add anti-OBP Corey Patterson to leadoff to be the yang to Adam's ying."

"Oh, Dunn is struggling awful bad this April. Let's stick him lower in the lineup, you know, where his .390 OBP will never be utilized and pitchers will never give him anything decent to hit... that's a slump buster. Adam Dunn has an OPS of over 1.000+ from the two hole? Let's stick Griffey there instead, the BA of .10 higher makes up for his .65 deficit in OBP."

Moving past the "building" comment, it's clear that Dunn is meant to be a core part of this offense... even if the lineup construction or acquisition of players haven't been done to Dunn's benefit. Call me crazy, but leaving a guy like Dunn alone after a .940 OPS season with 40 bombs was a better idea than trying to make him hit for more contact and less strikeouts (thank you Mr. Baker.) But hey, Dunn has a 1 to 1 ratio of strikeouts to walks! Something Baker is doing must be working.

All of which doesn't convince me that he's a good player.

[Slyder]

The lineup is so badly constructed DAILY because of Baker its easy for me to see why its faltered. Plus Dusty is a crappy old school statistician. Better to swing early instead of working counts. (See his "base clogging" quote)

Batting Patterson cause he's fast in the leadoff spot... inspite of the fact ANYONE with an iota of baseball acquem knows .290 OBP is BAD. Playing him the night after freel puts up 3 hits cause Patterson is 1-5 all time vs Glavine and Freels never faced him Result: another ohfer Patterson... Great logic there.

Brilliant moves there Dusty. I wish you were nevered hired. I wish the Reds bosses saw what most the rest of baseball saw. Your teams won inspite of you and they ditched you when they thought they might not be able to.

Almost the same lineup as last year (Patterson/Kepp is a wash for Hopper/AGon) and weve gone from being a good lineup to an anemic lineup. Difference? Dusty's making them.

My lineup:
1 Freel/Hopper CF(with Patterson told take the 3 mil and get out of town and the hot bat leading off)
2 Kepp SS
3 Dunn LF (If Freel/Hopper and Kepp are hot gets some oppertunities where the pitcher CANT walk him)
4 Votto 1b (We dont have a true #4 Kepp doesnt have enough power for my liking.Votto may not ever be Pujols but he will make you pay. )
5 EdE 3b
6 Phillips 2b (Get back to hitting line drives!!!!)
7 Griffey RF (Get back to seeing pitches and move him back up)
8 Catcher

[Slyder]

I will defend Dunn. He's sort of the anti Paul O'Neill, O'Neill blossomed when the Yanks let him be what he was a contact hitter with some power.

Dunn I am afraid is going down the same path. Dunn works counts he'll never contend for batting crowns. He is going to strike out but he's also going to get a ton of walks. I fully expect at some point he will be traded or offered arby and allowed to walk sign somewhere else and be better utilized than anyone 1 of the half a dozen managers the Reds have had have done. He will never be mistaken for Pujols, ManRam, or any elite hitter but he has very good plate discipline unfortunately the Reds either refuse to use him better or we have had idiots running the franchise since Dunn came up.

[redsrbetter]

Thats just the thing, I believe all these managers have screwed Dunn up. But 4 of them? Boone, Miley, Narron and Baker all screwed him up? I would hope the Reds would employ someone who could construct a lineup that best fits the team to include putting Dunn in the right spot to succeed.

[Slyder]

Thats just the thing, I believe all these managers have screwed Dunn up. But 4 of them? Boone, Miley, Narron and Baker all screwed him up? I would hope the Reds would employ someone who could construct a lineup that best fits the team to include putting Dunn in the right spot to succeed.

Unfortunately the Reds have yet to find someone who understand that Dunn could be useful at the top of the heart with his walks. They'd rather him 'clog bases' at the 5 and 6 hole and watch as an assortment of jokers leave him stranded.

[redsrbetter]

Exactly right. That is spot on. And fans get tired of the walks and solo HRs and that would all be resolved if they put him up in the order and had people behind him to drive him in. God only knows how he got 100 runs scored every year.

[Slyder]

Exactly right. That is spot on. And fans get tired of the walks and solo HRs and that would all be resolved if they put him up in the order and had people behind him to drive him in. God only knows how he got 100 runs scored every year.

Well when he drives himself in 40% of those that certainly helps.

[redsrbetter]

One thing I don't get is why do people put Dunn on a taller pedastal than Hatteberg? Are the HRs that great? Hatteberg has been an OBP machine his entire career and his OPS hasn't been bad either. But people are so quick to want to get rid of Hatteberg and not Dunn.