Producing Runs ?

[redram38]

Not trying to sound negative, BUT, When is the last time this team has produced runs without using the long ball to do it. It seems the only way we can score is someone hits it out. It is because that is how all these hitters seem to swing, all or nothing. Please tell me the last game we produced a big inning without the HR. If this is the case is it the hitting coach teaching this method, is it Narron. Seems like to me it all started when he became manager. I know Great American is set up for the HR, but would it not be better to get a few rallies and runs the old fashion way ????

[AtomicDumpling]

Marty was complaining about this during the game today too.

It seems to me it doesn't matter how you score the runs. The only thing that matters is that you score more than the other team.

Some old-timers think a run scored by playing small ball is somehow better than a run scored via homer. Why?

Generally the teams that score the most runs around the league tend to hit lots of homers. Home runs produce more runs than singles or bunts do.

The Reds don't usually have big innings because they have too many hitters with low on-base percentages. In order for singles and sacrifices to drive in runs you have to have runners in scoring position. The Reds don't get enough men on base or in scoring position. Homers don't rely on having people in scoring position to produce runs.

[redram38]

I agree with what you are saying however in order to score more runs, you have to have more than just solo shots. Point in case Adam Dunn with 40 HR's but less than 100 rbi's. That is because players like FREEL make to may fly ball outs. With his speed he should be trying get singles and doubles, but he hits one out last night and all of a sudden all his outs are fly ball outs. Same thind for Phillips, Gonzo, and Ross. Phillips can hit it out better than the other two, but I would love to see him go to the opposite field a bit more to mix things up. We have to score to win and you will not win many games with 2 solo hrs in 9 innings.

And on other note. Since Great American is a hitters park, why don't the powers that be go after some ground ball pitchers, instead of the old fossils we seem to LOVE signing year after year. The Reds could well be call the Re (tre) Ds. We have become the Oakland Raiders of baseball

[AtomicDumpling]

You are absolutely right.

Gonzo is terrible at getting on base. Freel doesn't get on too often, then gets picked off or thown out when he does get on.

Dunn, Hatteberg and Griffey are the Reds' best OBP guys, but they are also the hitters we expect to be driving in runs instead of setting the table for the others.

Another way of looking at the 40HRs and <100RBIs is to say that Dunn leads the Reds in runs scored every year mostly because he hits homers instead of waiting for the other hitters to drive him in.

[missionhockey21]

You are absolutely right.

Gonzo is terrible at getting on base. Freel doesn't get on too often, then gets picked off or thown out when he does get on.

Dunn, Hatteberg and Griffey are the Reds' best OBP guys, but they are also the hitters we expect to be driving in runs instead of setting the table for the others.

Another way of looking at the 40HRs and <100RBIs is to say that Dunn leads the Reds in runs scored every year mostly because he hits homers instead of waiting for the other hitters to drive him in.

I do think Adam Dunn lacks a BIT of clutch ability, but that doesn't change the fact that he is our run producer and I really think if he got placed in front of Jr., he'll see more pitches to hit in run producing situations. If Dunn is batting 6th, why would a pitcher give him anything at all that's fat when there are runners on base? Gonzalez and Ross batting behind him isn't likely going to induce fear into the pitcher and thus we see Dunn walk (which many seem to totally forget when they talk or rather rant on Dunn) or chase something he likely shouldn't be chasing.

[AtomicDumpling]

I do think Adam Dunn lacks a BIT of clutch ability, but that doesn't change the fact that he is our run producer and I really think if he got placed in front of Jr., he'll see more pitches to hit in run producing situations. If Dunn is batting 6th, why would a pitcher give him anything at all that's fat when there are runners on base? Gonzalez and Ross batting behind him isn't likely going to induce fear into the pitcher and thus we see Dunn walk (which many seem to totally forget when they talk or rather rant on Dunn) or chase something he likely shouldn't be chasing.

I wholeheartedly agree. Put Dunn in front of Griffey and watch good things happen.

Dunn's career numbers (in terms of OPS) are best when he has batted in the #2 slot. I don't have the numbers handy though.

It just makes sense to have the guy who leads your team in runs scored every year since 2004 (or was it 2003?) batting early in the lineup. Get him more at bats. He gets on base a high percentage of the time. It would be nice to have people on base when Griffey is up. Dunn will strike out less batting in front of Griffey.

[Jr's Boy]

Reds producing runs?That's a contradiction in terms.

[TeamSelig]

I have to disagree about Freel. He typicall gets on base at pretty decent rate. He does make some blunders, but the other day when Narron was tossed, it looked like Freel was safe.

We do need a legit .400 OBP every year type hitter. Dunn is usually close but his average is always so low that its impossible for him to hit 400... Freel is usually 375 or so I think. Hatteberg is 360 or above.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Freel is usually a good OBP guy, though this year has been a struggle in that regard.

I think he tries to do too much at times and does a bit more swinging for the fences. I think he feels he has to carry more of the load, probably because Narron's lineup construction.

I think his (at least right now) slightly elevated slugging percentage yet lower OBP speaks to his carrying a lot of weight on his shoulders.

[AtomicDumpling]

The Reds are currently ranked (in all MLB):
23rd in OBP
22nd in batting average
12th in runs scored.
3rd in home runs.

It seems to me the Reds are scoring runs at a higher rate than their OBP or BA would indicate. They are accomplishing this because they are good at hitting homers. If they were to rely on normal rates of home run hitting combined with "small ball" tactics they would be near the bottom of the league in runs scored.

The strategy of "get 'em on, move 'em over, bring 'em in" will not work for the Reds because they don't "get 'em on" very well as a team. Once they get on base they are not very good at "move 'em over" as indicated by low team batting average and a team-wide inability to bunt or sacrifice. It seems like the home run is the most effective way for this team to score runs (and win games). Therefore Jerry Narron should utilize his players in a manner that is most likely to succeed -- quit trying to play small ball with the bunt (and therefore give away outs). Instead, he should get runners on base and trust his sluggers to put runs on the board with homers.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Quit making sense, Atomic.

It just doesn't make sense.

[redram38]

The Reds are currently ranked (in all MLB):
23rd in OBP
22nd in batting average
12th in runs scored.
3rd in home runs.

It seems to me the Reds are scoring runs at a higher rate than their OBP or BA would indicate. They are accomplishing this because they are good at hitting homers. If they were to rely on normal rates of home run hitting combined with "small ball" tactics they would be near the bottom of the league in runs scored.

The strategy of "get 'em on, move 'em over, bring 'em in" will not work for the Reds because they don't "get 'em on" very well as a team. Once they get on base they are not very good at "move 'em over" as indicated by low team batting average and a team-wide inability to bunt or sacrifice. It seems like the home run is the most effective way for this team to score runs (and win games). Therefore Jerry Narron should utilize his players in a manner that is most likely to succeed -- quit trying to play small ball with the bunt (and therefore give away outs). Instead, he should get runners on base and trust his sluggers to put runs on the board with homers.

I totally agree with what you are saying, what I am saying is we need players (which we don't have) that can get on and set the table. That way if you have 2 on and someone hits a double or single instead of a HR we score more. Freel is supposed to be this type of player as is Phillips, Gonzo, and Hatttenburg. Edwin is a mixture of the 2 but with less power IMO. Narron needs to make Freel stop going for the long ball. My gosh does anyone really think he can hit 20 - 30 hrs a year. He is a leadoff hitter who has lost focus on what he is supposed to do. I Blame Narron for much and this with his strange lineups. Dunn between Gonzo and Connine or such is IMO just plain dumb and this is what is killing us. The players have lost confidence in themselves and the Manager. The only way to get it back is with a new manager. But then again we are told he has done a brilliant job this year, yet we have the worst team in baseball record wise. To much talent on this team to be where we are.