Whatever happened to the screwball??

[TStuck]

I was reading the minor league update tonight and saw that Livingston gave up 3 homers for Louisville. Thinking about his ceiling most likely being a #5 guy in the majors (at best), I was comparing him in my mind to former Reds lefty Fred Norman. Norman would throw a screwball as one of his pitches and helped him get the most out of what he had as an undersized left handed pitcher.
I tried thinking of any pitchers in the MLB who are noted for throwing a screwball with any regularity and couldn't come up with one. Has the "Uncle Scroogie" disappeared from the repertoire of today's lefthanders? If so, why?
Or do they just fall under the general reference of "curveball" today?

[redsrbetter]

I think that a screwball has now become a 2-seamer. If I recall correctly, a right handed pitcher would deliver a screwball to a left handed batter and it would break from left to right. Just like a 2-seamer does.

I amy be worng, but that is how I always knew a screwball was. I think it is just a different term now. And I am sure you know already that a lot of pitchers have a 2-seamer.

Welcome to the site TStuck!

[AtomicDumpling]

I thought a screwball was held like a curve but the wrist snap/rotation is in the opposite direction. It is very hard on the arm, which is why people don't use it anymore. There are too many other effective pitches that don't stress the elbow as much. I don't remember too many pitchers throwing it even in past decades. Tom Browning and Fernando Valenzuela are the only two I can remember having much success with it. I am sure there were others though. Supposedly Dice-K throws one.

[DravenX]

This gave me something to look up in Wikipedia.

A screwball is a baseball pitch that is thrown so as to break in the opposite direction of a curveball. Thrown by a right-handed pitcher, a screwball breaks from left to right from the point of view of the pitcher; the pitch therefore moves down and in on a right-handed batter and down and away from a left-handed batter. Thrown by a left-handed pitcher, a screwball breaks from right to left, moving down and in on a left-handed batter and down and away from a right-handed batter.

Due to this left to right movement of the ball when thrown by a right-handed pitcher, a screwball is often used by right-handed pitchers against left-handed batters in the same way that a slider is used by right-handed pitchers against right-handed batters.

The first prominent screwball pitcher was Hall of Famer Christy Mathewson, who threw what he termed the "fadeaway". However, Mathewson did not invent it; rather he learned it from teammate Dave Williams, whom he played with on a semi-pro team in Pennsylvania in 1898. Research indicates, however, that Williams did not invent the screwball either; Mickey Welch, a 19th century star, might have thrown a screwball.

Carl Hubbell, probably the most renowned practioner of the screwball in the history of the Major Leagues, was known as the "scroogie king" for his mastery of the pitch and the frequency for which threw it. Other notable screwball artists included Cy Young Award winners Mike Cuellar, Fernando Valenzuela and Mike Marshall. In addition, Boston Red Sox starter Bill Lee and New York Mets (and later Philadelphia Phillies) reliever Tug McGraw also built successful careers using the screwball.

Jim Mecir, who retired from the Florida Marlins following the 2005 season, was one of the last major-leaguers to throw the pitch. His screwball was a function not only of his arm motion, but also of an unorthodox delivery. He was born with two club feet; childhood surgery enabled him to walk but has left him unable to properly push off the pitcher's rubber with his right foot.

[TeamSelig]

I think because 1) it is very hard to learn and 2) it DESTROYS your arm, elbow to be specific if I remember correctly

[TStuck]

Thanks for the input everybody. I certainly know about the 2 seamer, but thought that only referred to a grip along the seams as opposed to across the seams resulting in a "fastball" with movement.
I suspected that it was due to the ungodly torque that it puts on the elbow, but wasn't sure. The wiki notation which referenced Jim Mecir was really interesting- Thx!

[TeamSelig]

Also, I don't think the 2 seamer is really all that similar at all. Fastballs generally don't move left to right (some do), unless if you are thinking of a cut fastball. 4 seam fastballs will sink a little.

Also, I'm not 100% for sure but it makes sense, a screwball isn't thrown at high speeds. Seems like it would be really hard to throw that with alot of velocity on it.

[redram38]

Nothing he is managing The Reds His name is Jerry Narron :-)

[Mario-Rijo]

Nothing he is managing The Reds His name is Jerry Narron :-)

Ah, you beat me too it!