Theo rejects Red Sox offer

[Fishercat]

For 2004, he got

Starting DH (Ortiz)
Starting 3B (Mueller)
Starting 2B (Bellhorn)
Starting SS (Cabrera)
Semi-Starting RF (Kapler)
Starting 1B (Millar)

Most of them in 2004 had impressive years too. Kapler not really, but the rest did their jobs. He also got most of the bullpen and two starting pitchers.

About Foulke, the A's didn't revive his career, Chicago was just dumb enough to let him go for Billy Koch. He had a sub-3 ERA since 1999 every year (until 2004).

He did get half the starting lineup

[Providence A's]

They revived his career because he had lost his closer job and no one else wanted him.

[love_that_reefer]

The only 3 players he added that helped a lot were Schilling, Foulke, and Ortiz.

Yeah only the three biggest players in that championship run. You need to c'mon. Sox would have done nothing if Theo didn't rape the Dbacks in the Schilling trade, get Ortiz for nothing and get Foulke (the true MVP of the 2004 Series).

[Providence A's]

Manny wasn't big? Damon wasn't big? Pedro wasn't big? Lowe wasn't big? Are you ****ing serious? Adding 3 players is not "building a team." Just because you don't agree w/ someone, doesn't mean you're always right. Everyone has their own opinion

[Fishercat]

No one wanted him? If no one wanted him, they wouldn't have gotten Koch (who did have a great year) for him. He had a sub-3 ERA and only lost his job because Manuel was an idiot.

I bet every team in the majors would have taken him if offered for cheap. The A's were willing to give the most.

[Providence A's]

Byrnes is rumored to go to the Dbacks which I wouldn't blame him at this point.

Already happened:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2206557

Updated: Oct. 28, 2005, 9:11 PM ET

[Providence A's]

No one wanted him? If no one wanted him, they wouldn't have gotten Koch (who did have a great year) for him. He had a sub-3 ERA and only lost his job because Manuel was an idiot.

I bet every team in the majors would have taken him if offered for cheap. The A's were willing to give the most.

The A's offered Koch because they didn't want him and he blew some crucial games for the A's and in the playoffs, too. And look where he is now

[Fishercat]

Koch was still a good pitcher that year, the A's just sold his arm to the black market for some baseballs.

[Providence A's]

And Koch sucked in 2003 while Foulke flourished...looks like Beane knew when to sell and who to buy.

[Fishercat]

Precisely...which means he knew to get the better pitcher when he could.

[Providence A's]

and the Sox benefited from Foulke showing that he wasn't done when he was with the A's. If he sucked, then the Sox wouldn't have signed him. The Sox had no interest in trading for him when the A's did. They only wanted him after he proved himself again.

[Fishercat]

True, but the Sox didn't have a Koch to trade to get him, and if he maintained his production from the year before the A's as a closer, he still would have been in high demand.

[Bosox21]

Theo was about to sign today, so money wasnt the problem. The question is hat happned to change that. My guess to stories inthe Globe this weekend, one about Manny and one attacking Theo. If he cant trust his own front office, why should he stay.

Theo alos brought in Millar, Mueller, Bellhorn. Okay they stunk this season (not so much Mueller) but in 04 played key roles in our winning. I dont want this franchise to revert back to the one of the late 90's, where we have no farm system.

[Bosox21]

Pretty good article about this mess

He didn’t exactly chuck an egg at Larry Lucchino’s office door on the way out, but Theo Epstein might as well have.

The Halloween deadline turned out to be the biggest trick the Red Sox could have possibly expected from their former -- yes, I said former, as in past tense -- general manager. In a stunning move, Epstein announced this evening that he’s gone. Kaput. Finis. In any language, no matter how you pronounceit, it spells Lucchino.

“In my time as general manager, I gave my entire heart and soul to the organization,” Epstein said in a statement. “During the process leading up to today’s decision, I came to the conclusion that I can no longer do so. In the end, my choice is the right one not only for me but for the Red Sox.”

Now, the question will be asked time and again over the coming days: Is it that he no longer can do so, or would not be allowed to?

I can only imagine what the offices on Yawkey and Brookline are like tonight, a scattered group of folks wondering what in the hell just happened here in this organization. At best, this is a public relations disaster for John Henry and company. At worst, it could very well spell the end of their kind welcome through the six-state home base of Red Sox Nation, where they have been appreciated and celebrated since Day One.

Paul Konerko? Brian Giles? Forget about it. Manny Ramirez? As good as gone. Johnny Damon? I doubt it. With Theo Epstein gone, the day-to-day operations of this ballclub are in flux, at the time of the year when they need to be at their most active. By the time the Red Sox get a general manager in place willing to work under Lucchino, Boston will be lucky to get its hands on Kevin Millar again.

To his credit, Epstein will stay on for a few more days to aid with the transition. That will be a comfortable working environment, no?

Here’s the bottom line, folks: Epstein cared too much about putting a baseball team on the field. That was his undoing at an address where the latest real estate development plan was more important. Why be concerned about bullpen help when you’ve got blueprints on the table? Why give your general manager that $1.5 million he’s asking for when instead you can sink $200 million into renovation of a Howard Johnson’s?

The Red Sox are no longer the local baseball team. The Olde Towne Team no more. They are a monster business, attaching itself to any and every money-making opportunity that comes its way. Coming soon, Fenway Park-themed fast food restaurants. They are more "This Old House" than "This Week in Baseball" these days.

The Boston Red Sox have become an enormous marketing machine. Winning isn’t everything, but it sure does help them make more money.

It’s going to be wildly interesting over the next few days to see how the Red Sox treat this. It is certainly a minority out there that isn’t unhappy with what has transpired here this evening. And you have to wonder what Lucchino’s plan is for a new GM. Paul DePodesta? Pat Gillick? John (shudder) Hart?

In their world, the Red Sox are doing just fine, thank you very much, with or without Theo Epstein, the former boy wonder. Why, they bang out the ballpark every single night, and had the “conscience” only to raise ticket prices slightly in 2006, even though demand said they could go higher. They are talked about 10 times as much as the local football team, which happens to have had a pretty good run of its own of late. Think anyone is talking Peyton Manning in these parts until the weekend now? Forget about it.

But with all that success comes a price that this group has yet to suffer as of yet. Any bad PR on their part has come in small bunches here and there. They even survived the Nomar deal in good part because of the way Garciaparra had brooded in the preceding weeks, and the immediate hot stretch they hit. Well, the team isn’t playing anytime soon, and the Red Sox have nothing to take the Nation’s mind off this front office disaster.

Theo Epstein is gone, and the Red Sox are much worse off for it.

I’m sorry, I meant the Red Sox fans. The Red Sox are probably embroiled too deeply in their latest multi-million dollar development plan to really care about it all that much.

[Fishercat]

Stinging, bitter...but that doesn't mean it's not accurate.